calorie density question

[elbow]

Hi Jeff,

I've found your calorie density approach works well for me. It seems to allow me to get more satiation for less calories, which is a deal that can't be beat!

I have a few questions about how it works:

1) Does it work because satiety is related to the weight of food we eat? Or is the weight more a proxy for volume? I suspect it's more complicated; for example, I don't feel all that satisfied by raw veggies even when I eat large volumes. But I feel quite satisfied by cooked potatoes and sweet potatoes.

2) Drinks like juices and nut milks actually have a reasonable calorie density, yet they are not recommended and are said to be not very satiating. What's different about liquids in how they affect satiety? I understand that juices are absorbed quickly and that's not desirable. I'm not as clear about why soy milk is a problem-- I mean, 1/2 cup a day. It doesn't seem to stimulate me to want to eat more.

3) When you eat high calorie-density foods like breads and crackers, does your body just not sense the high amount of calories as well? Or does it trigger the pleasure trap more because they are absorbed so quickly and cause the insulin spikes and such? I'm just trying to understand better why the body doesn't sense the high caloric foods better.

thanks for all you do!
-barb

[JeffN]

Does it work because satiety is related to the weight of food we eat?

Calorie density is simply a measure of the amount of calories in a given weight of food.

Weight is one of the factors that plays a role in determining how much food we consume in a day.

Or is the weight more a proxy for volume?

No. Air can have the same volume as water but a much different weight and impact on satiety.

I suspect it's more complicated; for example, I don't feel all that satisfied by raw veggies even when I eat large volumes. But I feel quite satisfied by cooked potatoes and sweet potatoes.

There are several factors going on here including weight, volume, fiber, calories and the form of the carbohydrates (starch).

Drinks like juices and nut milks actually have a reasonable calorie density, yet they are not recommended and are said to be not very satiating. What's different about liquids in how they affect satiety? I understand that juices are absorbed quickly and that's not desirable. I'm not as clear about why soy milk is a problem-- I mean, 1/2 cup a day. It doesn't seem to stimulate me to want to eat more.

Calorie density and satiety do not apply to liquid calories for many reasons. One is that most liquids leave the stomach in about 5 minutes depending on the temperature. Because of this, they really have little to any impact on the stretch receptors and satiety.

Nothing is all or none. These are guiding principles that you apply to your individual situation.

When you eat high calorie-density foods like breads and crackers, does your body just not sense the high amount of calories as well? Or does it trigger the pleasure trap more because they are absorbed so quickly and cause the insulin spikes and such? I'm just trying to understand better why the body doesn't sense the high caloric foods better.

It does, but after too many calories have been consumed because they are concentrated. The most important aspect of satiety is bulk, fiber, volume and weight, not calories.

Take 2 foods of the same calories. Even the same exact food. For instance, lets look at Grapes

Grapes - 300 cal/lb
250 calories of grapes = 4 cups

Raisins - 1357 cal/lb
250 calories of raisins = .5 cups

With the low calorie dense foods, which are high fiber, bulk, volume and weight, you fill up before you over consume calories.

With the high calorie dense food, which are so much more concentrated with less bulk and volume for the same calories, you do not fill up for the same calories and to get the feeling of satiety, you must eat much more.

thanks for all you do!

Thanks

In Health
Jeff

[elbow]

Thanks, that helps a lot. I'm particularly struck by these points:

The most important aspect of satiety is bulk, fiber, volume and weight, not calories.

...

With the low calorie dense foods, which are high fiber, bulk, volume and weight, you fill up before you over consume calories.

With the high calorie dense food, which are so much more concentrated with less bulk and volume for the same calories, you do not fill up for the same calories and to get the feeling of satiety, you must eat much more.

..and the point about liquids. I think I understand now: I do feel full several hours after consuming the high-calorie-dense foods, but I don't get the proper signals during eating so I am likely to overeat them during my meal.

This is great, and so easy to implement. I just took your table of calorie density and inserted my cutoff point in the right place and avoid the foods below that level:

The Calorie Density Scale
Foods Cal/#
Vegetables - 60 - 195
Fruit - 140 - 420
Potatoes, Pasta, Rice, Barley, Yams, Corn, Hot Cereals - 320 - 630
Beans, Peas, Lentils (cooked) - 310 - 780
---my cutoff point---
Breads, Bagels, Fat-free Muffins, Dried Fruit - 920 - 1360
Sugars (ie, sugar, honey, molasses, agave, corn syrup, etc 1200 -1800
Dry Cereals, Baked Chips, Fat-free Crackers, Pretzels, 1480 - 1760
Nuts/Seeds 2400 - 3200
Oils - 4000

[JeffN]

I do feel full several hours after consuming the high-calorie-dense foods, but I don't get the proper signals during eating so I am likely to overeat them during my meal.

Correct. We can feel full on most any solid food for hours. That is not the issue. The issue is, how many calories are we getting in with that food to get the fullness/satiety we are getting.

This is great, and so easy to implement.

Correct!

In Health
Jeff