Discussion Board

Jeff,

I have a hard time believing this study. I was wondering if you could comment on it.

Epidemiologic studies of coronary heart disease and stroke in Japanese men living in Japan, Hawaii and California: incidence of stroke in Japan and Hawaii.

Call me skeptical on this one.

I also noticed this one on Stroke in Framingham and Hawaii.

Risk of hospitalized stroke in men enrolled in the Honolulu Heart Program and the Framingham Study: A comparison of incidence and risk factor effects.

While waiting for Jeff to reply--Protein and fat have an inhibitory effect on hemorrhagic stroke (where a blood vessel bursts and there is a bleed into the brain.) On the other hand they promote ischemic stroke, the kind that is due to blocked arteries. In our country hemorrhagic stroke is very rare but in Japan it predominates. This is because the Japanese traditionally consume a diet very very high in salt. I believe I read that Fuhrman says it is especially necessary to avoid salt if you are on a very low fat diet.

Didi

Dr. Fuhrman and stroke and salt:

How to protect yourself from hemorrhagic stroke: Avoid salt!

High blood pressure is the most important risk factor for hemorrhagic stroke, and Americans have a 90% lifetime probability of having high blood pressure. The most effective way to keep blood pressure in a favorable range is to avoid the huge amounts of excess salt that most Americans consume. Stroke mortality is significantly higher in Japan and exceptionally high in certain areas of China where salt intake is high, in spite of low-fat diets.5 It is also well established that Third World countries that do no salt their food are virtually immune to hypertension and strokes.

High-salt consumption may be potentially more dangerous for vegans, vegetarians, and others who have earned low cholesterol levels by eating otherwise healthful diets. Many vegans believe that their low cholesterol levels and decreased atherosclerosis risk make them exempt from all types of cardiovascular disease, but this is not the case. Unlike heart disease, cholesterol is not an important risk factor for hemorrhagic stroke. In fact, low cholesterol levels are associated with increased risk of hemorrhagic stroke. A number of studies both in Japan and in the West have illustrated that fewer animal products and a low serum cholesterol were associated with increased risk of hemorrhagic stroke.6 The plaque-building process that results in atherosclerosis and premature death may in some way actually protect the fragile blood vessels in the brain from rupture due to high blood pressure. A high-salt diet may dramatically increase the risk of hemorrhagic stroke in vegans because they can live longer than the general population and not die from a heart attack first. Of course, excess sodium increases both heart attack and stroke death in all diet styles, but in vegans, a high-salt diet may be even more dangerous. To protect against heart attacks, ischemic strokes, and hemorrhagic strokes, you must dramatically curtail salt consumption.

Excess salt is more dangerous than most people realize. In addition to high blood pressure and stroke, salt contributes to kidney disease, heart disease, osteoporosis, ulcers, and stomach cancer.7 Avoiding salt is an essential component of a health-promoting, disease-preventing diet.

Kate

Kate,

Thanks for that information from Dr. Fuhrman. A relative of mine who subscribes to the Weston Price Foundation point of view told me "your brain needs animal fat." I think that this is incorrect. But "studies" like the one I referenced probably add fuel to that fire.

I am currently reading another study on the Japanese and Stroke prevention titled Explanation for the Japanese Paradox: Prevention of Increase in Coronary Heart Disease and Reduction in Stroke



I remember in Dr. Esselstyn's book, "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease," Dr. Esselstyn mentioned that a low-fat whole foods plant based diet can reduce the risk of ischemic stroke in the same way that it reduces the risk of heart attacks. And ischemic strokes, in the United States at least, represent the large majority of stroke incidence.

Jeff,

Asian countries have much lower incidence of heart attack than the United States. And this is attributed to fact that in these Asian countries plant based foods are a higher percentage of calories in their diet and most of these plant based foods are "whole" foods, not heavily processed.

But the higher stroke rates in these countries is troubling (higher than the US), though this is attributed to higher salt/sodium consumption.

Do we have any scientiic studies in which we can look at populations that have not only have significantly lower rates of heart attack than the US, but also lower stroke rates than the US?

Do we have any studies demonstating that if we consume a whole-foods plant based diet that is low in sodium (less than 1,500 mg per day), that our stroke rates will be low?

Humans and the great apes can get by on a surprisingly low-salt diet because our version of the gene for uricase, which breaks down uric acid, is nonfunctional. This fact is just one more piece of evidence to support the idea that humans are obligate herbivores.

http://wheredogorillasgettheirprotein.b ... ut-we.html

While it has been said that the high rate of hemorrhagic stroke is from the high salt content of the Japanese diet (and I have no doubt that this is true) I was also wondering if it is also due in part to high fish intake. And I am not talking about the contaminants in fish. Early explorers in the arctic noticed that the inuit have lots of nose bleeds. This is due to their very high sea animal and fish (and omega three) diets. Perhaps the same diet that caused the nosebleeds in Inuit on their traditional diets also caused them to have strokes. I will have to search to see if I can find anything about this.

Unfortunately people have a tendency to think that if a little bit of something is good, then a whole lot will be that much better. Perhaps this is true in the case of omega threes especially those from fish.

Didi

I am certainly not an "eat fish" advocate! but after living in the Rockies and AZ desert I would suggest that the super dry and cold arctic air may have been a major cause of those nosebleeds.