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 Post subject: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Hi Jeff,

What the hell is up with all these numbers I keep seeing at the produce department at Whole Foods? Now we're supposed to keep track of our produce consumption and add it up, like points on Weight Watchers? I know fruits and vegetables are good for us and we are supposed to eat lots of them and a wide variety, but what are these numbers and do they really mean anything? Will they help us be healthier? Wouldn't just not selling processed foods, oil and animal products at their store make more of a difference?

Thanks,
Ginger


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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Veg4life wrote:
Hi Jeff,

What the hell is up with all these numbers I keep seeing at the produce department at Whole Foods? Now we're supposed to keep track of our produce consumption and add it up, like points on Weight Watchers? I know fruits and vegetables are good for us and we are supposed to eat lots of them and a wide variety, but what are these numbers and do they really mean anything? Will they help us be healthier? Wouldn't just not selling processed foods, oil and animal products at their store make more of a difference?

Thanks,
Ginger


You are correct and I agree. I am not a fan or the ANDI score nor do I recommend its use.

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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Here is the ANDI score as posted in Whole Foods

Image

Does anyone think "eggs" are better than "tempeh" or even "similar" as a healthy food?

That Skim Milk is better than Soy Milk?

etc, etc

Again, we should never evaluate a food but one perspective (ie nutrient density) as it can lead us into making choices that are not in our best interest.

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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Jeff. I completely and whole heartedly agree. These numbers suggest these foods are similar by comparison. Not helpful and in fact misleading. Esp when most folks have no idea where the numbers came from.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:04 pm 
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euromixer wrote:
Jeff. I completely and whole heartedly agree. These numbers suggest these foods are similar by comparison. Not helpful and in fact misleading. Esp when most folks have no idea where the numbers came from.


Correct.

And, as you said, the system is a proprietary system and that is a problem as no one knows where the numbers come from nor can we evaluate the accuracy, credibility or the validity of the numbers and the system.

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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:43 pm 
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The only good thing about those ANDI scores (and I have the same objections as JeffN) is that leafy-green vegetables have super-high ANDI scores (~1000). If that information gets more people to eat more leafy-green vegetables, that is good. But the people will have to be over in the produce area in the first place in order to see the score. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:59 pm 
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I do agree that for us it wouldn't be necessary since we are already enlightened. However, many people who are used to 'diets' may like the idea. As someone said, it's similar to Weight Watcher's counting points. Most of the population is used to some kind of regimen as far as losing weight. ) Perhaps it might bring them into the 'healthy eating' arena even if just 'counting' the ANDI numbers and making healthier choices with produce.


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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:03 pm 
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The system is a proprietary system.

So, how it was created and the formula used is not available to anyone, including paying members, nor is it published anywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:12 pm 
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HealthE1 wrote:
However, many people who are used to 'diets' may like the idea. As someone said, it's similar to Weight Watcher's counting points. Most of the population is used to some kind of regimen as far as losing weight. ) .


I recently posted the results from several studies that had been conducted over time, the less complicated a program was the greater the adherence over time and success of those following it. Weight Watchers, and its point system, was actually mentioned as one that was not simple.

Additionally, eventually, people figure out how to cheat on the points so, even if they have value, it soon gets lost. The same will happen, and is already happening here. The photo was sent to me by someone who was now convinced that this gave them reason to continue consuming dairy products that they had been told to avoid.

HealthE1 wrote:
I do agree that for us it wouldn't be necessary since we are already enlightened. .


I agree.

HealthE1 wrote:
Perhaps it might bring them into the 'healthy eating' arena even if just 'counting' the ANDI numbers and making healthier choices with produce.


I would strongly disagree. The most important thing is to get people to consume more fruits, veggies, starchy veggies, intact whole grains and legumes, regardless, and not to fret over whether cauliflower is rated higher than Brussels Sprouts.

I posted this on my FB page this morning and think it also applies here...

Quote:
There are many serious problems right now and many things we all need to focus on. However, as the flight attendants tell us, we have to put the mask on ourselves and ensure our own well being and safety first, before we can help anyone else. This is not selfish or self-serving, but sane, effective and rational.

However, many people get confused and do nothing because it seems like there is so much to do. Or they put all their energy into efforts that make minimal impacts because they are confused on what matters most.

The single most important thing anyone can do to impact their health and the health of the environment, by far, is to change what they eat. I want to help make that as clear, simple and easy for everyone to do. As only 3% of Americans follow the 5 basic healthy lifestyle behaviors, my work is cut out for me.


IMH(P&P)O, the ANDI system makes it harder, not easier.

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Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:36 pm 
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i have the ANDI pdf but have no idea how to post it....it was from his members site awhile ago....

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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:03 pm 
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ncyg46 wrote:
i have the ANDI pdf but have no idea how to post it....it was from his members site awhile ago....


The ANDI chart is posted here in several threads.

viewtopic.php?t=8267

http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article17.aspx

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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:14 pm
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Location: Los Angeles
ANDI - A Nuisance Disguised as Important


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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:54 am 
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RowerDave wrote:
ANDI - A Nuisance Disguised as Important


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:19 am 
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JeffN wrote:
Additionally, eventually, people figure out how to cheat on the points so, even if they have value, it soon gets lost. The same will happen, and is already happening here.


So, if I eat 37 eggs it'll equal a bunch of kale? I'm in! ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: ANDI scores at Whole Foods
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:36 pm 
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While the explanation gives some information, it does not explain all the variables used, nor does it explain exactly how each number was calculated or a comparison between a few items to show how the numbers were calculated.

In addition, it doesn't reference the exact information that the methods are based on or if any adjustments were made (ie, was sodium counted in the figure and if so, at what level?)

Which values were used for each nutrient and why?

Many nutrients do not have an RDA/DRI so if a number was used, where did it come from as there are no established values.

Also, the ORAC, may have had some value at some point, but has had its value questioned so why were the ORAC numbers doubled.

paul cervantes wrote:
Keep in mind that nutrient density scoring is not the only factor that determines good health. For example, if we only ate foods with a high nutrient density score our diet would be too low in fat. So we have to pick some foods with lower nutrient density scores (but preferably the ones with the healthier fats) to include in our high nutrient diet.


So, which scale do I use to help me determine that?

Lastly, nutrient density is just one factor of a food. As the ANDI score shows, many foods can be nutrient dense, but may not be healthy. Where is the documentation and the validation that using the ANDI score improves health outcomes? In other words, we know a plant based, whole food, unrefined, unprocessed diet, is powerful in preventing and reversing disease. Where is there any evidence that such a diet but one based on only foods with "higher" ANDI scores is even better?

Let me end by repeating my main point which I posted earlier in this thread...

Quote:
There are many serious problems right now and many things we all need to focus on. However, as the flight attendants tell us, we have to put the mask on ourselves and ensure our own well being and safety first, before we can help anyone else. This is not selfish or self-serving, but sane, effective and rational.

However, many people get confused and do nothing because it seems like there is so much to do. Or they put all their energy into efforts that make minimal impacts because they are confused on what matters most.

The single most important thing anyone can do to impact their health and the health of the environment, by far, is to change what they eat. I want to help make that as clear, simple and easy for everyone to do. As only 3% of Americans follow the 5 basic healthy lifestyle behaviors, my work is cut out for me.


IMH(P&P)O, the ANDI system makes it harder, not easier.

In Health
Jeff

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Website
http://www.JeffNovick.com

Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/JeffNovickRD

DVD's
http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/DVDs.html


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