Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

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Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby Peaceful Warrior » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:58 am

Dear Jeff,

I have been a paid member of the Furhman boards and I am canceling my membership today because of this insulting post I read about you. I do not wish to be involved with anyone who is so offensive. I am wondering if you saw it and how you feel about it. Although I do not know you, from what I have seen of you on Vegsource lectures, you are probably the sanest and least ego driven of anyone in this field. I debated whether or not I should post this because you are such a fine human being and I do not wish to hurt you. I was just thinking, wouldn't it be great if all 25,000 members of THIS forum could flood Furhman's office with faxes telling him what an asshole he is? How does he get away with this libel and slander? If anyone wants to join me in this campaign, Furhman's fax #is 908-237-0210. Here is the post:


Yesterday, 06:43 AM #194
Dr. Fuhrman
Medical Staff

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 16,362

It is clear and not controversial that Jeff is on the payroll of Dr. McDougall and intentionally distorts my work to protect and promote Dr. McDougall. If Jeff wanted to be fair he would ask me to respond, and post my response, or check with me for the accuracy of his response. Obviously, that is not his purpose there. The nut argument is so ridiculous and distorted to be just stupid.
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby Mober » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:39 pm

I was looking for the link from the guys that test ORAC values for everyone. My sister in law sells "healthy" chocolate and I saw in a few articles about it the ORAC people say "sure it does have a ton of antioxidants, but I caution no one knows how much is enough or what more means" ... I wish I could find the exact quote.

BTW vicious attacks signal argument breakdown. No facts left get hissy.
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby Chumly » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:55 pm

I am also a member of Dr. Fuhrman's website and I have searched for this post but haven't been able to find it. I found a posting from 6:43AM Yesterday, Posts: 16,362 and it says the following:

"I do not think that you are at risk with having cataract surgery, or that their is anything you can do. Of course, exercise, an ideal blood level of Vitamin D and calcium are extra important for you with the steroids, but I know you are taking that already. The other supplements you are taking are okay. "

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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby JeffN » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:58 pm

Joel is a longtime colleague and friend and I and have a huge amount of respect and gratitude for the work he does. If the above post is true, I am sad to see anything happen that distracts from an open discussion on the issues and again, if true, I do not recommend anyone act inappropriately in this/my regard.

Ironically though, I posted the following earlier this morning in a response to another thread...

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewt ... 30#p138630

JeffN wrote:
Letha.. wrote:I think there is value in discussion with people who disagree with you. It appears that you disagree with Dr. McDougall’s recommendations in several areas. That’s fine with me. But I think that for individuals attempting to change their dietary habits it can be confusing to see you give advice that is different than Dr. McDougall’s.


I saved this for last for a reason.

There are areas we disagree, but they are minor in relation to the bigger picture of the program, and are not the ones mentioned above. Some people have raised them in other threads and when appropriate, we have discussed them.

However, I am glad you raised this point here and now as it is an important issue.

There are a few issues we disagree on.

However, it is important to realize that I am not a salesperson for the McDougall Program but a health professional dedicated to the science of health and nutrition and the well-being of my patients and that of the public. My perspective and my interpretation of the science happens to align closely with that of Dr McDougall's. Therefore, I work for Dr McDougall as a freelance consultant/contract worker and I am only paid for the services I render (ie, lectures) and I am under no obligation to "agree" with him on anything.

He hires me to give "my" lectures on the topics I choose and in spite of the fact that we do disagree on some minor issues. He has never once asked me to change any of my lectures which discuss these differences, or any of the content in them, nor has he ever wanted to edit and/or censor any part of any one of my talks. In fact, we feel it adds to the scientific discourse of the program.

And, to be honest, in him doing this, he exhibits extreme professionalism and integrity, especially in this field, and is a rare bird (or should I say potato). :)

I hold multiple contracts and though the one with Dr McDougall represents only a small percentage of the total, it is the one I enjoy the most.

For the record, the time, energy and effort I put in at these forums is done on my own as a volunteer and was started at my own request.

This is all also important because in the world of health, so many health professionals have sold out their integrity for a few dollars to work for big companies and industries, and/or to sell health products and/or to sell supplements and compromise their message and integrity for a paycheck.

In Health
Jeff


This is a public forum and anyone is welcome to come here and discuss/debate the issues with me. Everyone is treated with dignity and respect, including the heretics. :)

My discussions on nuts are well thought out, scientifically documented and actually inline with those of all other credible scientific organizations and the national recommendations.

In Nov, 2009, I was a keynote speaker at the International CHIP Summit at Loma Linda Univeristy, where Dr Gary Fraser, also spoke. Dr Fraser is a Professor of Medicine, a Professor of Epidemiology, the Director of the Center for Health Research at Loma Linda University and has overseen the 7th Day Adventist Study, which is one of the key studies documenting the health benefits of nuts. He also in involved with with other research on nuts. In a discussion on nuts, his response and recommendations were 100% inline with my position, recommendations and limits on nuts.

This topic has produced some excellent and well thought out discussions in these forums here and on my website forums when they were up. In fact, the single most viewed topic at my websites forum, was the one on this issue. As that forum is no longer being maintained publicly, I may re-post that thread here, later.

The irony in all this discussion over the issues of nuts, is that I am actually the one, who over 13 years ago (and long before joining the McDougall program) presented my position along with all the scientific literature supporting my position, to the Pritikin Science Advisory committee to have their position on nuts changed. And, after several moths of debates, got the Pritikin Program, to add nuts to their diet and helped oversee the development of their guideline and recommendation for nuts. Before that, nuts were forbidden. Those guidelines and recommendations are the exact same guidelines they still follow, I teach at the McDougall program and elucidate here.

If and when the science on nuts changes, I will act accordingly.

Let us keep our focus on the discussion of the issues.

Remember, principles, not personalities.

In Health
Jeff
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby Peaceful Warrior » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:24 pm

I am also a member of Dr. Fuhrman's website and I have searched for this post but haven't been able to find it.


Go to Off-Topic, then the thread called "Dr. Oz is wrong" then page 20.
Here's the link:
https://forums.drfuhrman.com/showthread ... 62&page=20
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby Peaceful Warrior » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:29 pm

I am always sad to see anything happen that distracts from an open discussion on the issues.



Leave it to you, Jeff, to take the high road and not attack back. That says oodles about you.
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby AussieDavid » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:52 pm

Only one word to describe Mr Jeff Novick:
100% PROFESSIONAL!!!!

OK 2 words.
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby Dechen » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:19 pm

AussieDavid wrote:Only one word to describe Mr Jeff Novick:
100% PROFESSIONAL!!!!

OK 2 words.


I agree with your sentiment but...

100% = 3 numbers and 1 sign
Professional = 1 word :D :lol:
https://mostlyfatfreemcdougall.wordpress.com/
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby marcusm » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:59 pm

If the only difference between these two colleagues is, basically, a squabble over a few nuts, then I don't think there is much to worry about. If the above-quoted post is by Dr. Furhman then perhaps he should be allowed to have a bad day or get grumpy once in a while? Anyone having so much to do and apparently posting thousands and thousands of posts is bound to err once in a while. Besides, any single post out of context can be made to seem lots of things it may not be.

I'm not a member of Dr. Furhman's website so I don't know what goes on over there. But from everything I've read here, Jeff Novick is exactly the sort of person I'd love to have a lively disagreement with as I know he'd be cordial, thoughtful and be able to back up what he says with solid science. :)
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby Peaceful Warrior » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:22 pm

. If the above-quoted post is by Dr. Furhman then perhaps he should be allowed to have a bad day or get grumpy once in a while?


I assure you that the above post indeed was made by Dr. Fuhrman himself. There is a big difference between "having a bad day" and defaming someone's career with statements such as "he deliberately distorts the science" or "he does not say the truth because he is on McDougall's payroll" (which is not even true).
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Re: Joel Furhman's vicious attack of Jeff Novick

Postby JeffN » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:43 pm

I am going to lock this thread and let it end here.

If anyone wants to continue the discussion of fat, essential fats, nuts, seeds, arrhythmia's etc, which are the issues we should be discussing, please do so in the other threads that already exist on these topics or start a new one.

Thanks

In Health
Jeff
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