Discussion Board

I've been reading about salicylate sensitivity and no two sites have the same ED lists. Some say apples and potatoes are ok, others don't. Since all other nightshades seem to be out, I'll definitely nix the white potatoes.

I'm not clear on whether sweet potatoes and winter squash are ok.

I found a list that gives the salicylate content of over 200 foods and have put them in a spreadsheet so i can sort them, but I don't know what kind of threshold to look for.

This is a bit frustrating.

Ok, here's my plan. Any feedback would be welcome and much appreciated.

I'm continuing with a modified McDougall ED, but eliminating sweet potatoes, winter squash, and all fruit other than pears and bananas. I'm going to assume plantains are ok. Veggies will be limited to cruciferous veggies, lettuce, and celery. All cooked.

I'm not clear on whether brown or red rice are ok or if I have to resort to white rice.

In about 2-3 weeks, depending on whether I see improvement, I will start my first few challenges with foods I think are not a problem and also are NOT high in salicylates so I can stack a few successes up and expand my diet. My first few challenges will probably be:

Limes
Garlic
Onions
Soy
Wheat
Oats

That will give me a bit more flexibility in my diet, if the challenges are successful. Then I'll move on to a selection of very high salicylate content foods to see if I react to those. These are also some of my favorites.

Tomatoes
Peppers
Spinach
and a few spices, probably dill, basil, ginger, turmeric, and thyme. If I react to peppers, then I won't even bother testing paprika and cayenne and hot sauces and assume I will react.

I will look at my data after those challenges to determine next steps.

I think I'm going to gain weight on this. It will be rice heavy for quite some time, and without being able to use denser veggies and less caloric starches to fill me up and fuel me, I'll be eating a lot of rice, which is calorically more dense that what I usually eat and will put weight on me.

You might be surprised. I'm eating twice the amount of starch I used to eat, plus a couple of pounds of 'green and yellow' vegetables every day and I stuggle to keep my weight UP. Without all the sauces and condiments the ED is really very low in calorie density. I'm currently eating cups of cooked oats, quinoa, brown rice, giant sweet potatoes, whole winter squashes, ears of steamed corn, etc. But it seems whenever I step on the scale my weight is the same or a smidge lower.

Kate

You could do what I did when I began suspecting sulphur was a common denominator for the foods that were causing my inflammation problems.

http://www.anti-itisdiet.blogspot.com/2 ... ssful.html

Nearly all foods have some sulphur, so where should I draw the line in the amount that a 100 gram serving contains?

One way to approach that is to find the range. What are the lowest foods that you would be likely to eat? What are the highest foods that you would be likely to eat? Start by picking the plant foods that are in the lowest 10% range. That should give you quite a few choices for a beginning.

I hope you are right. I didn't use much in the way of sauces before this, but maybe even a little makes a difference. My worry is not being able to have the sweet potatoes and winter squash for starch and having to rely on rice, which is much more calorically dense.

Hi Burgess, that's a good idea. I might pick a few items after a week or so of the bare bones diet and calculate what amount might be below a certain threshold. I think the trick will be finding that threshold.

I've read your blog and its very helpful. Thank you.

This research from 1985 shows results of salicylate content for 333 foods:
http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allerg ... nfoods.pdf

White potatoes without peel show as no salicylate. White sweet potato shows higher than yellow sweet potato. Pumpkin shows the same level as potato with peel.

Conclusion
"The values for salicylate in foods that we have obtained
work out to a range from about 10 mg to 200 mglday
salicylate in Western diets. This is of the same order of
magnitude as the challenge dose of salicylate used in
clinical testing (60), usually a 300-mg aspirin tablet. The
usual adult pharmacological dose of aspirin is 600 mg
(two tablets) at a time, often several times a day, Previous
figures for salicylates in most foods are so much smaller
than this that it is difficult to see how the food could have
similar effects to salicylate medication in sensitive individ·
uals."

As for threshold, I don't know how sensitive you are to salicylate. I don't know how long it takes to clear one's system either. But I imagine you'd want to stay under the challenge dosage level, no? Do you think you typically consume a high level (let's say 150 to 300mg per day) in your normal diet?

Well, I'm on day 6 of the McDougall ED and I feel pretty good! My energy is probably what most people would call normal. (When I'm healthy, I'm more of an energizer bunny, but I'll take "normal" any day over excessively fatigued!!) I worked out this morning, did farm chores, went to the store, and got some work done and am getting ready--and feel ready--for more work and then more farm chores after that. I think that's pretty good.

I'll have to calculate what level of salicylate I consume. I've been keeping a food log for about 4 months, so it shouldn't be a problem to sample some random days.

Since I'm feeling better without the salicylate ED, I might just keep in a yellow sweet potato a day as well as pumpkin or similar winter squashes. I'm guessing yellow vs white refers to the color of the flesh not the skin.

Since white potatoes are nightshades, I won't use them, even peeled, without a challenge.

Thanks again, Agnes.

The failsafe diet, designed to eliminate additives, salicylates, amines and glutamates: http://failsafediet.files.wordpress.com ... letter.pdf Commentary on the side of the chart might be helpful.

A discussion with some references to bananas/salicylates:
http://www.salicylatesensitivity.com/fo ... ionID=1052

http://allergy-diary.blogspot.com/


Frieda, I don't think rice will necessarily cause you to gain or hold onto unwanted weight. Many see good results with diets where the primary starch is rice. Traditional Chinese and Japanese didn't get fat eating rice. Right? By cleaning up your diet with the elimination, you might find you're eliminating things that are causing you to feel bad (CFS), and it's possible those things may also be interfering with weight loss. The puzzle has many interlocking pieces, remember.

If you're still worried about the rice, eat a lot of congee. The high water component will lower the calorie density of your rice. Add lots of celery and cabbage. That's where the flavor will have to come from since no spices are allowed, and rice porridge is pretty bland. No spices. Man. Such a bummer. (If I did this elimination, black pepper would have to be my first challenge food. ) Can you eat green onions or leek? They're low in salicylate. Those would also add some flavor.

You're welcome.

For sweet potatoes, I guess the color refers to the flesh. I don't know for sure though.

Good idea to go through some of your old food data and see what your salicylate content looks like.

Another link, just because I'm linky.
http://fedup.com.au/information/shoppin ... it-and-veg

Well, after my first day on the basic elimination diet, I'm disappointed to have a return of my low back pain. It's the first time since Thursday morning that it's hurt. I hoped it would progressively get better with eating from the base diet, not worsen. My previously injured finger is also aching.

I think my finger is going to be a good symptom to track as it's fine sometimes and then will ache for a day or two with no change in physical activity or use. Presumably this is a food reaction. The original injury was on July 3 when I slammed my hand down on a surface while wearing garden gloves and a small piece of wire punctured the skin at the base of the knuckle on the palm. The entire finger hurt and was very stiff when I tried to bend it for several days, making me think I shocked a tendon or something like that. Within a week, it seemed to be fine except for discomfort when I pushed down on the puncture site. In the past couple of weeks, though, it sporadically gets very achy again.

The low back pain is sort of the same. I strained the muscles on the 19th, healed, but now the pain returns on occasion. I had occasional low back ache prior to the 19th, too.

While I don't have the serious conditions that many of the rest of you seem to, I have a multitude of issues that I believe are diet-related that add up to a fair amount of discomfort on a regular basis. These include:
heel pain other than the plantar fasciitis which I remedied by eliminating all dairy
knee on the same side which aches on occasion
hips that hurt at times
periodic low back pain
periodic mid back pain (kidney infection has been medically ruled out)
intestinal distress/discomfort, often paired with the low back pain
occasional inflammation of a SCJ (sterno-clavicular joint)/neck issue which results in dizziness when I turn my head or lift the arm on the same side as the SCJ issue
wrist aches
finger aches (mentioned above)
skin breakouts on face and neck

As you can see, most of my issues are structural. However, my energy is also not as high as I'd like it to be, I have a history of overtraining every time I do regular exercise, I have recurring depression (usually fairly mild), and I have dark circles under my eyes ("allergic shiners"?). I suspect many of these additional issues may actually have roots in a food intolerance or allergy. I have had all of this even while eating a healthy McDougall diet off and on over the years, which is, I believe, part of the reason I have trouble staying consistent with this way of eating.

And dang it, right now I've got a sinus headache coming on, extremely rare unless I consume dairy. Considering the low back pain, achy finger, and now the headache, I'd say one of the supposedly safe foods on the elimination diet is NOT safe for me.

Food consumed yesterday and today:
brown rice cereal
cooked peaches
baked sweet potatoes
boiled green beans
pressure-cooked artichokes
salt

Any thoughts on what I might want to cut out from that group. If this is an immediate food reaction, it would have to be to the artichoke or sweet potato I had within the last hour. I had both yesterday and no headache occurred yesterday. I also had the same breakfast today as yesterday (brown rice cereal and peaches).

Thank you for letting me write all this out. I'm going to my doctor tomorrow re the low back pain and this information will be useful to take to him. He watched "Forks over Knives" last year, changed his diet, and fully supports this way of eating!

Correction: I also had a few licks of the spatula from cooking cranberries, apricots, and a peach in the last hour. I just licked it again (it's too tart!) and almost immediately felt my headache worsen. So that, at least, may be tied to either apricots or cranberries.

If I have not reacted similarly to peaches for two meals, are apricots more likely to be okay? Which would narrow it down to potentially the cranberries, at least for the headache.

Had a funny thing happen at work today. My lunch every day is a large bowl of microwaved frozen mixed vegetables/greens followed by a sweet potato or winter squash nuked together with an apple or pear and some cinnamon. I had just nuked 1/2 a small butternut squash and a Pink Lady apple with cinnamon and had gone into my office to eat when a co-worker came in complaining that he wanted some 'apple pie' too. I get this all the time. There's something about cooked apples, squash and cinnamon that evokes memories of pie You should have seen the guy's face when he saw what I was eating. His 'what the hell is that response' was priceless.
Kate

I FEEL GREAT TODAY!!!

Yes, I used all caps, I mean it that much! My energy level this afternoon is back to NORMAL. I had an ok morning, and after an early afternoon meeting I started to crash and thought cr@p, I'm not getting any better. That lasted about 30 minutes or so, and then I perked up. I'm clear headed and energetic and laughing again. I hope to God this stays with me and I figure out my triggers. Since I hadn't really started eliminating salicylic acid foods I'm going to put that in my back pocket for now and continue with the standard McDougall ED, which got me to this point. I may revisit that as I see the results of my challenges or if this feeling good business doesn't stick with me.


Hi Chile, it took my mother almost a week to feel results, and I'm on day 6 and for the first time in a long time I FEEL GREAT!!

So give it time. The answer is there, and I'd guess you are very close. Hang in there.



That's fabulous! We should all be able to find doctors like that! Mine is skeptical, but at the same time he doesn't fight with me or my mother about lifestyle issues.

Ha! He should be lucky enough to eat like you. He has no idea what he's missing.