Discussion Board

Ethical vegan. Yeah. Once you know, it's hard to un-know. Most people just don't want to know. I was in that place of not wanting to know. Then I forced myself to watch Earthlings. It's really about informed choice, isn't it?

Funny how people get used to seeing each other looking a certain way. Any change (size, wrinkles, hair color) disrupts their reality. Given a little time, most can adjust their mind to the new you. But I suppose some might always see the new you as a stranger.

OH, the doggies! Oh the cute, cute doggies!!!

Yes, Ethical Vegan is a confrontational phrase to many. I try to get around it whenever I can to smooth things over, because I really don't WANT to be judgmental - certainly I know how it feels to be judged for one's dietary choices! But even a hint of it can really ruffle feathers.

carollynne It gets a bit surreal for me. The weight I've lost, the way I look, the way I feel, what I eat. If someone had told me 6 months ago, this is where I'd be, I would have thought them crazy.

I think wife is trying to get healthier, however she seems to be sadly misguided. For instance she bought some frozen cranberries and cherries at the organic market, I had assumed this was to make a citrus free cranberry relish because she seems to have developed an allergy to citric acid. She made juice instead. She likes to drink cranberry juice because it helps with the pain in her kidneys, and most commercial cranberry juice has citric acid or apple juice (allergic to that too) in it.

AlwaysAgnes This should prove to be an interesting year. My best friend and his family visit us twice a year, labor day and memorial day. As of right now he doesn't know I've lost ANY weight. Trying to decide if I should say anything before hand to soften the shock, cause I expect to I'll have hit the 100 mark by then.

nicoles I think most meat eaters, like my previous self, realize that it is wrong on some level, and that animals are suffering. I know I used to turn a blind eye to it. Mostly because I couldn't imagine a life without eating animal products. I stopped eating animal products, for my health. I've continued to not eat animal products, because I feel great and I think this is the best way for me to eat. What I'm finding to be shocking is the people, who are suffering, shortening their lives and living in misery, are not willing to stop eating animals...For their OWN good. I'm still a little uneasy with embracing the ethical side of veganism.

Have I mentioned that I love fasting days. Have only lost 1 pound in the past week, might have to add a second fasting day.

Dissolution,
HI!! What you just wrote has made me think of that line: Nothing I could eat will ever make me feel as good as how this feels.
congrats on how super duper you are doing! You are doing it! Nothing can stop you know! wow!
there is also the line about how nothing succeeds like success!!

Your wife has a pain in her kidneys? That does not sound good to me. Hope the cranberry juice does help that for sure. It is so hard to stop a freight train as it is running down the track!! but when you love someone you have to try I know...
Yesterday at the water class I am in, a Korean lady, another military wife was telling how she has had diabetes for 9 yrs adn is now only on 1 pill, instead of 4 a day... so I had to mention how the vegan diet has been successful in reversing that in a lot of people in type 2 .... she of course right away started to tell me about a show on the tv about a lady who was vegetarian for yrs and yrs and got so sick and to start eating some meat again, and has a small farm and treats her animals so good, etc. So I told myself, don't go down that route ever again let these silly people just kill themselves eating this way... why do I bother anyway? she is slender, but has the diabetic solid big stomach look and big face too. I did say that I have never felt any better in my life and how my liver has cleared up and gallbladder, etc. It is so natural to want to help people but they have to get there themselves. I will not be doing that again!!
And you, Dissolution have done that!! so cool !!
Hey my DH His still doing great on plan of no more beer. Now when he is walking into the house, he usually has some sierra mist and a case of green tea in the garage. Nothing wrong with that compared to the beer, but he also is eating those 2 bowls of ice cream too. that is way too much, so I decided to say something very small about his glucose, which he relay gave up all cakes and cookies for and it worked right away. He really was not ready to deal with that issue, presently, so I did not pursue it any further. I am just very happy not to be confronted with the other issues, but I just see diabetes looming up front as he is switching. Perhaps he is doing one battle at a time. Praying for him, and that is the best thing I can do!

I Love it about your good buddy coming on Memorial Weekend and will be getting the shock of his life!! wouldn't you love to get a picture of his expression when he sees how you look now! I have had that experience with friends, but DH has not said a word, outside of finally giving up on the restaurant issues and hoping I'd go back to candy, candy, etc. He is 7 yrs older than I and talk about set in his ways, but even an old dog can learn a few new tricks I tell him!!
Hey have a great day out there in McDougall land! I am off to start a pot of new brown jasmine rice for us here.
Have a great day out there, and have some fun along the way too!

carollynne Thanks for all of your kind words.

Here's one of my new favorite quotes; "The food you eat can be either the safest and most powerful form of medicine or the slowest form of poison.”

People are very odd about what they believe to be true as far as diet and nutrition go. I suppose we're no different, but of course I think our WOE is the most logical. Like the Korean lady, I always thought vegetarians and vegans were unhealthy, I didn't know plant food had protein. For years the one question I always wrestled with was, "What is healthy to eat?". Is 1 serving of broccoli healthy? Yes, of course. How about 4 servings a day? Yeah, it still is healthy. What about a boneless skinless chicken breast, is one serving healthy? It's supposed to be. What about 4 servings a day? Um, no, you would be WAY over the mark in recommended dietary cholesterol intake. So I think that's going to be my "golden rule" for the future in deciding what is healthy.

Are 4 servings a day of these foods healthy?

Cauliflower - Yup
Peanuts - Oooo...Probably not
Apples - Yup
Vegan cheese - I seriously doubt it
Brown rice - Umm...Yeah
Potatoes - Yeah
Oatmeal - Yes
Salmon - No!
Agave nectar - Sadly, nope.

I think that works....

My wife has been having kidney pain for a few years, and always turns to cranberry juice to "clear it up", and it seems to work. However, recently she's developed some food allergies. She's always been allergic to apples, but recently citric acid and yellow dye #5 have become suspect.

Sounds like your husband is making slow and steady progress, I wish you two the best.
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Have I mentioned that I love fasting days. Weighed in at 234 this morning, that's 2 pounds down! Doesn't look like I'll make my goal weight of 220 pounds by 2/19/12, but I should be in the 220's, think I'll probably go skiing anyways.

234
wow that really sounds so wonderful!! You will be down to 200 and faster than you think too! Get ready for it!!
Hey I am praying for your dear wife.... it will turn itself around or not!!
have a good day, headed for the park with doggie again! before the rain starts up today.

If you have any questions about allergies to yellow food dye, message me. I have been allergic to it for almost 20 years. And even when I was eating SAD managed to only need to treat it 4 times in over 10 years. My allergist was much impressed.

Congrats on losing 2 more pounds. THats awesome!!!

Had a talk with the wife today. We talked about the comment I made last Friday when I saw her preparing oatmeal, I said "oh good". She admitted that it made her mad and that she's been purposely eating bad food to spite me. She's been miserable since last Friday night when she over ate at the casino. She slept until 2pm today. She's been in pain and just generally feeling horrible. I tried pointing out that she felt MUCH better last week when she was eating oatmeal, but she blamed me for saying anything as to the reason she quit eating it. Is this making any sense to anyone else? I guess she has put herself into so much of an adversarial position, that there's no way she could come to this WOE without losing pride. She acts like it would kill her for me to be right. I'm afraid it's going to kill her to be wrong.

Didn't walk again today. My left knee is bothering me. I finally started paying a little more attention to it today.It bothers me when I stand and walk after sitting for a while, IF I keep my knee at a 90º angle or less. I can site with my leg extended, doesn't have to be straight and it will not bother me. My guess is that as my body shrinks, my nerves and blood vessels have to "reposition" themselves. Could be just old age though..lol I would expect though if it was osteo-arthritis it would get worse the longer I walked, this only bothers me the first couple of minutes, AFTER I get up and start walking.

Watched Forks Over Knives again tonight. Think I need to pick up a couple of copies to show and give away. Haha...I keep thinking of that scene from "A Clockwork Orange" when they have the guy strapped to a chair with his eyelids held open. Except when I see the scene in my head it's my wife strapped to the chair and I'm showing her FOK...lol That WOULD be illegal right? haha...jk

I had purple cabbage and peas over red rice tonight for dinner, so good.

Your wife's reaction reminds me of a saying I've heard before. It says that nurturing a resentment is like eating poison and hoping the other person dies. When I heard that the first time I had to take a good hard look at whether my reactions to other people were actually in my benefit or not.

It's interesting that you mentioned you were becoming an ethical vegan. I have been watching a series of lectures from the Stanford University Prevention Research Center that I downloaded from iTunesU.

The speaker talked about an experiment they ran at Stanford. One sememster they taught a class on veganism strictly from a health aspect - a kind of 'China Study/Supersize Me' based program. At the end of the semester they polled the students and virtually none had made any changes in their SAD eating. The next semester they taught the same class emphasizing the damage that animal agriculture does to water, air and land and the horrible conditions farmed animals live and die under - call this the 'Earthlings' approach. At the end of the semester the student convertion to veganism was much higher.

Just goes to show the difference age makes. Young people care about the environment, but tend to think they are immortal. Those of us who have suffered a serious health crisis tend to want to fix that first, but then find the ethical aspects of veganism grow increasingly important as we dig deeper into vegan philosophy.

Kate

yarnpetter That's an excellent saying, I've never heard it before.

Katydid Would be interesting to see what the vegan retention rate was among the latter group. Especially if the ethical vegans think they are sacrificing for the good of the environment or animals, how long do they stick with it? One person would have a hard time seeing their impact on the environment or animal suffering, but those of us in it for our own health, easily see the impact on our own bodies. Though, I can certainly see why college kids would not be interested int he health aspects.

Last night for dinner my wife had cream of wheat and fruit. I didn't say a WORD.....I did dream last night that my son texted me and told me she was now a McDougaller. Trying not to get my hopes up.

As part of my dinner last night I steamed broccoli. The new arrangement where I put my rice cooker / steamer on the stove and turn the exhaust fan on seems to be working. I asked my wife if she could tell that I had steamed broccoli and she said that she couldn't.

Last Saturday when we were at the organic market, I bought some rolled barley. I had that for breakfast this morning. Seemed to take about 4 or 5 minutes longer than rolled oats to cook. It was good, but honestly not all that different that oats, once I have it "doctored" up.

I did my walk/jog this morning. I did the two mile circuit, but my software only seemed to register part of it, and wouldn't upload. Performance seemed very good since I've had so many days off. Will have to see if my knee pain comes back.

So for lunch today I was going to steam some broccoli. I normally just buy the broccoli crowns at the store, this last time they were a bit on the wilted side, so I bought the ones with a lot of stalk. With the crowns there's not normally enough stalk left to worry about, but with these last ones, they were mostly stalk. I tried steaming them last time along side of the florets, they turned out a little al dente for my liking. So today I decided to cut up the stalks and boil them int he water that I was going to steam the broccoli with. Then I decided, maybe I should add some spices to the water, so I added;

a dash of salt
a little liquid amino
some chopped onion
chopped red pepper
garlic
red pepper flake
chili powder
small handful of black beans

I think I've made soup...It's pretty good actually. I really enjoy unintentional cooking.

A Jeff Novick that was on my fb from the E2 diet peeps., about how the FDA allows lies to be put on the labels of Spam, and I can 't believe it is not butter. He is a very humorous guy in his talks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pD3-j0GWdo

Hi Dissolution, dropping by again, to say hi, You are doing great!! Glad you are on your walks again too.

carollynne I love Novick, he's one of my favorites! Thanks for the link.

I was sitting here debating on whether or not to go for my walk, it's cold, looks like rain, a little sore from yesterday. Then I saw this picture;



So...
Distance: 2.10 miles
Moving Time: 30:57
Average Moving Speed: 4.08 mph
Elevation gain: 673 ft

That is definitely an inspiring picture.

wow, does that little guy look happy! makes me wonder how he got his injuries, and how diabetics need to revamp their life style to keep their limbs!!
thanks Dis, I always enjoy anything from Jeff or the vegan docs!!
good for you for walking. I went to the pool too today, and now it is snowing here. Knee has been bugging me a lot more and I think it is the weather at times... but not a excuse!