Discussion Board

This is pretty much what happened to me, too! Started this WOE for health reasons, then began to shift to a totally different and unexpected perspective. Suddenly I could not understand how anyone could be so blind as to eat meat, when they loved their pets so very much.

We have pets, and our Vet is, as it turns out, a vegan. He is also the absolute kindest vet I have ever seen - he handles each animal like a newborn, and he teared up noticeably when we had to put our old kitty to sleep almost a year ago. I had an interesting conversation with him about being vegan after I "turned" - he is one of the only people I know (in person, not "virtually") who feels like I do - and it was so nice to be able to talk freely, without offending anyone.

If I say anything close to what I really think, most people I know look at me like I have three heads. Even my husband, who does stay away from animal products primarily, except for the occasional holiday, is not swayed by the vegan perspective, although he has changed to the extent that on the rare occasions he does have an animal product, he does his best to make sure it is not factory-farmed and is super-duper-free-range. Which is expensive. Probably the price meat should be, as a matter of fact.



As a woman, I have to agree, albeit with sadness and reluctance. You were lost from the start. Probably she was upset about something else - perhaps insecure about her attractiveness - and this was just
the perfect outlet.

fulenn The straight razor did seem to leave the back of my neck very smooth. Wasn't really a "turn-on" though, I was just glad the guy with parkinsons wasn't doing it.

carollynne The fasting thing is really much better than I expected. I didn't expect my energy level to be so high throughout the day. The weight loss was an added bonus, After first fasting day I dropped 2 pounds, and then an additional pound the next day. This last time, I was only down one, and nothing the following day, but I'm still going to keep doing it.

When did you watch Earthlings?

AlwaysAgnes I think that most people, truly do believe that you need to eat meat in order to be healthy (gotta have that protein). I know that's the way I used to think. I also felt that vegans were misguided in that they put their own health at risk in order to save animals. I was probably somewhat aware that conditions at factory farms and feed lots were bad, and that animals suffered, but I saw no realistic way around that. Then I watched that stupid Forks Over Knives movie and it's been all downhill since then...lol

MixedGrains Yeah....I walked right into that one.

nicoles The shifts of perspective I am having are somewhat unsettling at times.

Last night the wife was looking at some stuff online and showed me a book on herbal medicine, I told her that if I had know, she could have gone to a class on Chinese herbal medicine at the co-op/organic grocery store. Then she started in about how organic produce was stupid because the FDA wouldn't let farmers put anything on the crops that could harm humans. Then she pointed out that organic farming was immoral because the lower crop yields per acre contributed to worsening world hunger. I just laughed and told her that argument didn't work on a vegan, because if we stopped raising animals to eat, the food we use on the animals could easily feed all humans on the planet. Things got worse from there.

Good performance on my walk/jog this morning.

Distance: 1.73 miles
Moving Time: 23:17
Average Moving Speed: 4.47 mph
Elevation gain: 506 ft

I tried on my size 38" jeans that #2 son gave me for Christmas, and they FIT! Was a great ego boost, the wife kept wanting me to turn around so she could see my butt. At work today, even the big biker looking guys from the production floor were stopping me and asking how much weight I had lost and how I was doing it. One lady even took my picture so she could show it to her husband to try and convince him to try "my diet". It was a really cool day.

The wife decided to continue our debate/argument from last night when I got home. I made some sort of Paula Dean comment, and here's what she thinks. In case you don't know Yul Brynner died of lung cancer, after his death a PSA was released where he said, "Now that I'm gone, I tell you don't smoke. Whatever you do, just don't smoke. If I could take back that smoking, we wouldn't be talking about any cancer. I'm convinced of that." So the analogy I put forth to her was, what Paula Dean is doing, would be like Yul Brynner, continuing to smoke and signing an endorsement deal with a chemo-therapy drug company. My wife said she would be ok with that.

She accused me of changing my political views completely, said I had been brainwashed and all kinds of other stuff. Now, I'm not sure if my wife is taking these opposite opinions, because she is just trying to be difficult, or if she truly believes these things and I AM the one who has changed so much. I guess the lack on meat is rotting my brain...

I think it's interesting that your wife thinks your change of diet is political. I mean, I guess I can see how animal rights are political, but I feel like anyone from any political inclination should be able to eat a plant-based diet without feeling like a traitor. Veganism is seen as unpatriotic in most quarters -- how can we change that?

Congrats on the small pants!

Good morning to you. It has been raining hard all night here. We need it I am sure.
To answer your ?, We watched Earthlings just this week, on Tuesday I think. the sound seemed distorted, but we thought it may have been intentional too. At times the music was better, and the words were hard to understand. I saw it all the way down to the middle of the sea animals. Very hard to sit thru. Even after all that I was seen on doc. and DVDs. Forks over knives is a lot better, as it is a hopeful movie. In fact I may watch it again today for the message.
Love it!! The smaller sized jeans!! Hurray, Hurray for you! Your wife will not be able to let it go. She will have to join you losing wt and inches. does she love to argue, and win at whatever cost? Most of my family does that too. and some of them died still arguing. That personality is confrontational, you cannot change them anyway........ No fun at all. I mean who cares anyway. but the type of person who does that is not stressed by it, they are happy to do it. It is merely a discussion for them.
Sure hope your wife stopped eating those ham and cheese sammies too.
have a good day!

Broadbean I used to associate veganism with PETA. I also seem to remember watching Whale Wars and them talking about all the meals on the ship were vegan. So from my own background I could see how telling someone that I don't eat animals, or animal products could be see by some as in indicator that my political views leaned towards the left side of the political spectrum. My wife knows that I was brought to this WOE for reasons of my health alone. I have not shared any of my thoughts about the cruelty of factory farming. So I don't understand why she accuses me of changing my political views. The areas where I do have a new opinion are about food, the USDA, the food industry, the medical industry, the pharmaceutical companies, and Paula Deen.

Yesterday when I had lots of people asking me about the weight loss and what diet I was on, it didn't seem like any of them took what I was telling them to have anything to do with political views.

The main thing I think needs to change is just to get the word out about the health benefits. The animal cruelty portion needs to be pushed far to the side initially. We need The China Study movie!

carollynne Yes, the wife is a win the argument at all costs type of person. I tend to not say things, that I think I will regret in the future, so most of the time I just quit arguing and walk away. That probably makes her just as mad as if I had come up with a really good zinger. I try to pick my battles and tend to get my way on most of the things that are really important, even if I don't win the argument.

Down about 1/2 pound this morning. Legs were kinda sore, thinking that maybe I over did it yesterday. Too much jogging too soon. So I was prepared to not walk today, but I had just downloaded some new music, and the only time I really listen to music is when I'm walking, so I went out and walked.

Distance: 2.00 miles
Moving Time: 29:45
Average Moving Speed: 4.03 mph
Elevation gain: 506 ft

As expected speed was down from yesterday, but what I didn't expect was it to be as high as it was. I really felt like it was a casual stroll.

For lunch I had some left over barley, that I didn't make into soup last week. It had been soaked, but not cooked. I threw it into the rice cooker and cooked it like rice. On half of it I used Bragg liquid aminos and nutritional yeast and the other half I mixed with a little maple syrup and date sugar. They were both pretty good, got the wife to taste the sweet one, she spit it out, figures.

Oy. Totally untrue. read "Tomatoland: How Modern Industrial Agriculture Destroyed Our Most Alluring Fruit " by Barry Estabrook for some examples.

And while the government my try to keep the levels safe, it does not mean they ENFORCE the regulations all that well.




I understand why things got worse, but I am with you on that one. Another interesting and relevant read: "Fatal Harvest: The Tragedy of Industrial Agriculture" by Andrew Kimbrell



Yay! Sounds wonderful



It is true - you have changed. That is challenging for lots of folks to deal with. My husband and I have gotten into plenty of heated debates about consuming animal products and animal cruelty - and he totally supports my diet.

I used to be real big on dairy, and meat. Did not like people telling me that it was in any way morally or environmentally wrong. Well, I sing different tune now, but most folks I know do not.

wow!! You are doing it up so good. I am super impressed by your progress. Your wife will have to get on the stick and start to lose some of her lard fanny, to keep up. Or else the comparison will just be too much for her to bear. Tee hee!
it is a crying shame what will motivate some people, but then so be it!!
I might watch the rest of the Earthlings this weekend, some time.
Your barley sounds great. I love barley in just about anything. Love it in soups.
2 miles today, that is great. One day this week, at the walking park, with my little Yorkie, a young man stopped to pet the dog, and then I noticed him doing another lap all around the park, and I wondered if he was on a vegan diet for his health. He was a bit overwt, but moving faster than I was for sure. He made me think of you, dissolution, and how nice he was to the dog, and walking alone for exercise....... Hate to be nosey... and too mothering but he did remind me a man on the move with a mission to complete. wow! Exercise is really catching on everywhere.

Oh yeah, I meant to post a picture of my Yorkie Poo. Her name is Missy. If I'm sitting at my computer, and I hear a little growl, when I turn around, this is most likely what I'll see.

What a cute little doggie!! Seh is so dear!
She looks very well cared for and loved! Our little Maxie just runs the house too. She is a mix with some other kind, and we got her at the pound to boot. She was so lost and forlorn.... and every rib could be counted too! The lady who grooms her said she was a Yorkie too, and thought that perhaps a breeder and tossed out after she was done. But that is not it, the vet has said she never had babies. so......and has a touch of curl to her hair.
Maxie is near me all the time except when she is exploring and tugging at the leash to get going faster.
Hey thanks for posting that nice photo!!
have a great day and keep up the walking! Do you every take the dog on your walks? I do, because she needs some exercise too!!

Dogs are no fools. They're smart enough to know how to 'work' us simple humans.

The late, great Belle the Beagle working her owner:



Kate

Sounds like you're doing great Dissolution!
Yes I do believe our dogs train us! We think we are training them but they know it is just a matter of time before they have trained us!

nicoles I did some research into Tomatoland and the author. That's some pretty upsetting stuff. Think I will pick up that and the Fatal Harvest book. Thanks for the recommendations.

carollynne I tried to take her one day, before it got cold. Some dogs barked at her from behind a fence and it scared her really bad. Haven't tried taking her since.

Katydid Haha! Great picture! Dogs are awesome This one is really bad about trying to run the house.

Melinda I've always had good luck at training big dogs, like labs and mutts, but little dogs seem to be a LOT tougher. I've got a chihuahua that knows when it's cold outside, and will hide when I get up in the morning, so I can't make him go outside. The chihuahuas on there own, NEVER ask to go outside, we just have to make them go outside every few hours and hope for the best. The Yorkie-Poo will come and "tell me" when one of the 2 chihuahuas has to go outside and will then herd them to the door.

Last night I took the wife out on a date. We went to the race track / casino. I have never really cared for the restaurant there, over priced and lousy food. They switched over to buffet on Friday and Saturday nights, it's $30 for prime rib and crab legs. I'm not paying $30 to eat veggies. The wife ordered rack of lamb, I ordered salad, asparagus and a baked potato. The waiter asked what I wanted on the potato, I said salsa if you have it. The "chef" actually made me a fresh salsa, it was excellent. Everything else was prepared perfectly, including the wife's food. Will go back.

Watched several of the races, went down to track side for the last one. Then went to the casino. The wife got to play the slots, I got to listen to live music, we left $60 ahead for the night. Excellent date!

Today we decided to go see #4Son'sGF, she's STILL in the hospital with Ulcerative Colitis. They're using some kind of organ transplant drug on her now. They say she's only got a 50% chance of leaving the hospital WITH her colon.

The co-op / organic grocery store is on the way to the hospital. I told the wife I needed to pick a couple of things up. I must say, I was a little nervous taking her there, but I was very surprised how much she enjoyed looking at everything. I think she spent more than I did.
If we had been headed towards home, she probably would have bought some of the fresh lamb.

I bought;

Date sugar (main item I said I came for)
Kale (main item I really came for)
Rolled barley (looks like rolled oatmeal)
Split peas

We stopped at the wife's favorite restaurant on the way home. Our first really bad experience there. Food was bad, especially the wife's. Main thing I was annoyed about was the side order of spaghetti I ordered. I ate a bite and then had to wipe the grease off my face. I drained at least 1/4 cup of what I would assume was EVOO onto a saucer, which means that had to have used at least 1/2 cup of the stuff. This was a $4.00 side order of spaghetti, so it was small, and they used 1/2 cup of oil on it. I mean seriously, do they get complaints if it's NOT drenched in oil!? I was going to complain tot he waitress, but couldn't find her. Had to go to the cashier to get our bill.

So I was more sore this morning than yesterday, so I didn't walk. Feel pretty good tonight, so hopefully will get a good one in tomorrow.

Good Morning to you !
Hey your day out with wife sounds like it went so nice! Great when you can come out ahead at a slots place.
Maxie is a lot like your Yorkie - Poo. She hates to get out if it is too cold or wet. But she loves to just stand at the door and sniff the cold air and see what is about in the big outdoors too. The concept of letting you know if others have to get outside, is a good one. Wow, she is very intelligent.
I fully understand about the greasy plates! Ugh big time~! but nice that your wife had such a good time with you shopping and eating out. Amazing how different your taste buds are now. But what is the alternative? You have had a heart attack at a very early age and doing what you need to do to insure that she can sustain her lifestyle and that she can keep eating herself (all she wants). She ought to be d--- happy about it. Sorry if that sounds a bit over the top!
But at least you came out over the amount you started with! and enjoyed the dinner out too. Cool beans there! Our closest Whole Foods is about an hr away. Keep at this WOE, and save yourself, you will after all be alone with or whatever disability you get after the next one hits, (God keep you safe) I watch how muy DH is eating (still) and although I fix him plenty of greens, he is having 2 bowls of ice cream a day now, and loving his chicken and at least not any beer still. The sugar in the ice cream is replacing the alcohol sugar. Cannot wait to see what his glucose reading will be on his next lab in Feb. I am keeping away for all ice cream, even soy ones which are so good, and have not even made any up with my vita mix yet! However I did make up a nice batch of the Engine 2 brownies, with no oil, or egg and they came out pretty good.
will have to try and include a pix of my doggie here!
I went to tinypic and hope this try is not too big a picture... here it goes, viola it worked, I used the medium pre-sized and it worked. This is my oldest son Eric holding Maxie on the AT near us in PA. Maxie had a great time and loves the outdoors if it not too cold and definitely not wet.

carollynne That's a handsome son you have there, and Maxie is SO cute, I love the folded ear look.

Sunday was pretty boring, didn't go walking. I traded exercise for changing the rear brakes on the car, that was about all the cold I could stand.

Have been wearing some of the smaller sized jeans I got for Christmas. It's really weird, I'll catch a glimpse of myself in a reflective surface or something when we were out this weekend, and would do a double take, because I looked so normal. Like I said before, regular fat guy, it's really weird. People keep asking me, "How much more are you going to lose?". I just tell them, "I don't know, at least another 50 or 60 pounds." They generally tell me I'm wasting away to nothing. Even had a guy today ask me multiple times if I wanted him to get me a Pepsi. Look people, I'm still OBESE, I'm probably 20 pounds from fat. That's funny, I can't wait to be fat!

When is my wife going to figure this "it's the food" thing out. She had steak tonight, in some sort of heavy cream based sauce, and she feels horrible tonight, just miserable. Oh yeah, she had ice cream for dessert. Last night she had waffles (She bought a Belgium waffle iron yesterday) and bacon last night, and felt really bad this morning, and then slept most of the day. I think I messed up Friday morning, she was having oatmeal and I said something like, "Oh good", which she took as me being patronizing, so I think she's been on a four day eating binge to "teach me a lesson" or something.

So I watched this video called "There's nothing manly about eating meat"
http://vimeo.com/26718309

This is a good video for men. It pushes a lot of our buttons.

Ethical vegan, damn. That sure wouldn't smooth things over with the wife.

woo-ho on the smaller jeans you are wearing Dissolution! that has got to be the best feeling in the whole wide world!
I am just now watching that 16 min clip you had a link for in your last post. It is great. My 2 sons, oldest and youngest, led the way for me, and I still wonder at how it all got started in my life. But thank God it did! The alternative is that I would be over eating still at the buffets, and then feeling all horrid and bloated... I tell you, life is grand now.
Your wife is such a marvel of a woman. I think she just may be feeling the wave of joining you, but does not want any fanfare perhaps. At least she did have some oatmeal right/ My DH had some recently too, and then he went out to store and stopped by Hardee's for more Bf.
Hey have a good day and keep McDougalling and walking for your health.