Discussion Board

Hi Michelle,

Just finished reading through your journal. Is your healing going well? I hope you are feeling much better each day.

Lots of what you wrote resonated with me, particularly concerning issues of family meals and struggling with standing up for your own needs vs. not rocking the boat or, worse, hurting somebody's feelings. I often wonder why what is (or is not) on my plate is anybody's business but mine. It's not as if I am taking something off their plates! And it is hard if you are a people pleaser, non-confrontational, or just plain uncomfortable being the center of attention, because choosing to eat differently is confrontational, does put you in the spotlight, and certainly doesn't seem to please many people. I think part of committing to this WOE means deciding that MY health is more important to me than avoiding discomfort in other areas. And heart disease or diabetes or stroke or (fill in the blank) would be a whole lot more uncomfortable than standing up for myself is.

Stay the course. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

Wishing you a speedy recovery!

January 01, 2012 - 212.0
January 06, 2012 - 210.5
January 13, 2012 - 209.5
January 20, 2012 - 208.0
January 27, 2012 - 210.0
February 3, 2012 - 207.0
February 10, 2012-207.0
February 18, 2012-208.0

Last week forgot to put this on mine as well for Feb weigh in, was up one pound last week.

January 01, 2012 - 212.0
January 06, 2012 - 210.5
January 13, 2012 - 209.5
January 20, 2012 - 208.0
January 27, 2012 - 210.0
February 3, 2012 - 207.0
February 10, 2012-207.0
February 18, 2012-208.0
February 24, 2012-207.5

Down .5 pounds, but no exercise this week again

Surgeon cleared me for swimming again starting next week, yay

I have been away from posting recently, which is about being on pain drugs. I was only taking them at night to sleep, as I had bad shoulder pain from the gall bladder removal surgery. I couldn't figure this out so when the surgeon called this week to see how I was doing I had to ask. Turns out the liver is usually inflamed by this surgery and it is connected to a nerve that runs to one's shoulder, generally causing significant pain to the right shoulder area. Boy, is that ever true!

I don't do well with most pain drugs, usually few of them work with fibro - but these worked fine and were incredibly powerful. so taking them at night maybe once or twice ruined me for the next day entirely. I have been pretty much no energy for over a week and it's interesting without them how fast I am popping back to myself.

About our McDougall friend Nancy I had just started following her when she came back on the boards and was concerned with all the health issues she was posting. Even with all that was going on for her health-wise: a stroke and a tumor, I kept thinking she was still young and eating well - despite the smoking and a bit of drinking.

Today when I logged back on after my absence I planned to catch up on her posts to see if things were going OK for her. Instead I was shocked and saddened to see Debbie's post that she had passed this week. I am so sad to hear this, because she was such a vibrant part of this community over the years and wrote honest good hearted posts of her journey and it's struggles too.

In my mind I will always tie my resolve to never be in a hospital again to what Nancy had to likely endure in her last months. It's been many years now, but I gave up both smoking and drinking and haven't missed either at all. Not that I don't have a glass of wine on occasion still, but the smell of cigarette smoke, even just passing someone in a parking lot who is puffing away, sickens me now. Neither of these things was hard to give up - but if you're around people that still do - that can make it unbearably difficult to do.

Nancy did some big things to get healthy; she shared those with us and her efforts to give up these last few things as well. I'll remember her for her honesty and good nature - and as a reminder that even some small risks are too big to take.

Rest in peace Nancy.

Quinoamania Thanks for your observations on how this WOE is effecting your social interactions too. I so hear exactly what you are saying. I am not a shy person, but on this I wish I could just blend into the woodwork & that what I eat was not such a big deal to other folks. It seems that they think this is some kind of fad. I feel to some it's like I am being difficult and even just weird.

I am especially glad you posted, because I bet I'll forget just how bad conforming to family meals is for me. Seriously, it took over a week to recover from Christmas dinner & treats. But I won't forget what you have said and will remind myself it's about my health not pleasing my dear sweet family members, who seriously are trying to put their best meal and our favorites out for a big feast.

The other thing that will remind me is the 3 cooking for the holiday's vegan cookbooks I bought right after that last terrible binge off McDougall. Oh and even better I found out that a local and very high end grocery prepares a complete vegan holiday meal now. So maybe next year I can take some really great courses from Andronico's to the family meal and everyone can be happy

Good morning
What a nice post about Nancy. I didn't know her but I will definitely look up her posts, as it sounds like she struggled with some of the same issues that I do. There are so many inpsiring folk on this board, but it sounds like she is one who really made an impact on you. Thanks for sharing that.

I hope you're recovering well and getting back to normal as the days pass. Have you had any increase in pain since your surgery?

BLue

Hey blue: It's so great to see your continuing improvements in your journal, I am just so happy for you! Pretty sad though about the people who won't let you share your results on that other forum though. I can't even begin to think why they would exclude that type of information in favor of keeping on drugs that cause such damage?

Now for your question - did I have an increase in pain due to the surgery - most preceptive of you to ask - and yes, I did.

A tangent here, but it was made clear to me that surgeries very likely contribute to the long-term pain load and probably that isn't just true for fibro suffers. I learned this in discussion with the nurse who coordinates the intensive 10 - Week Pain Management Course at my medical facility. This surgery subject came up during a phone call I made to her to thank her for her part in getting me interested changing my diet. I'd say this nurse was my catalyst to start looking at eliminating food to reduce my pain - and I wanted her to know that her nutrition module durning the training was the most valuable thing for me in the whole training.

That's saying a ton, because this training is done by an impressive team made up of: a doc who specializes in pain analysis & therapies, a psychologist, a physical therapist, a pharmacist, acupuncturists and bio feed back specialists. I got a complete tailored plan out of the course specific to me and my fbro.

Of all of that, the most valuable thing was hearing that foods cause inflamation and that eliminating things like wheat (gluten) and dairy can make a difference in pain. Boy, do I ever know the truth of that now!

But I digress from your question - yes, the surgery did increase the pain as nurse Barbara had eluded to in our conversation many months back. The reason we were talking about this is that she was amazed at how many surgeries (5) I had prior to my early 40s and how my pain started to increase during this time to the point of my diagnosis of fibro.

She clearly believed that there is a link, but I also got the feeling that they are concerned about this surgery - long-term pain connection in the medical community as well. Possibly knowing that each surgery can fix one thing, but cause overload on the muscoskeletal/nervous system simultaneously and that may have cumulative effect with additional surgeries.

So, I did come out of this with more pain and it's lingering longer then I would hope. But I think the food is making a huge difference, as I really anticipated double the recovery time - just to deal with a spike in fibro pain - and actually I am pretty much right on schedule at returning to "my normal " activities.

So on that note, right at two-weeks, when normal people are recovering and going back to work after this type of surgery - obviously I am not that NORMAL, but I actually started my swimming program again, yay! And I kept up pretty well despite having been out for over a month since this all started.

My trainer Nathan - was concerned about how much I should do, as he is a geriatric sports medicine trainer and they get training for what is appropriate after most types of surgeries. His worry for me was that I would know the limitations from what hurts - but he is trained to see how people are mentally functioning after being on lengthy anesthesia.

Interestingly, once he mentioned that I could kind of see this in our chat prior to our aerobics portion of the class that he was kind of tracking on my mental acuity not just my current physical symptoms. So, that was very interesting and comforting too. I really am so fortunate to get to have such well trained coaches!

And now I am back to exercise - I should say I lost a whole pound from swimming yesterday and it looks like I am back to finally loosing weight again. YAY for that

Hi Michelle, I've started a journal, and am reading some others. I have read a good bit of yours, and it is really helpful Thanks so much - take care, LauraA

Oh my goodness, Michelle! It has been awhile since I caught up on your journal and so much has happened!

I am sorry for all you have had to go through recently, but glad you are coming out the other side, with a supportive and conscientious trainer and losing weight once more. I am impressed with your tenacity, but I totally understand what it is like to be so motivated. We are eating this way to save our lives, and the quality of our lives!

With you in spirit! And wishing you a faster reduction in post-surgery pain than you ever could have thought possible!

I can't find it, but I read an article about Michael Phelps and his 12,000 calorie food consumption during his Olympic training. The author of the article went on to calculate that even with swimming for his entire 5-hour training session, wouldn't be enough to burn anywhere close to the extra 9,000 calories a day he was consuming.

The author's conclusion was it had to be the thermal properties of the water in the swimming pool accounting for almost half of his added calorie burn.

No science behind any of this, but might be worth keeping in mind, to see if you notice any correlation with your weight loss and swimming.

January 01, 2012 - 212.0
January 06, 2012 - 210.5
January 13, 2012 - 209.5
January 20, 2012 - 208.0
January 27, 2012 - 210.0
February 3, 2012 - 207.0
February 10, 2012-207.0
February 18, 2012-208.0
February 24, 2012-207.5
March 2, 2012-206.0

Down 1.5 pounds - yay for being back in the pool!

My Weight Chart:
>

Congrats, Michelle! It is great to see you back on track, and I hope you are starting to feel LOTS better.

Robin

Laura: I am looking forward to reading your new journal and I am certain that I'll pick up good hints and thoughtful observations from it too. I am really glad your journal posting again because it helps both the journal and all the readers too. I love this McDougall Forum

Nicole: Hey you, hope all is well with you. Been keeping up with your posts. Interesting that your doing some Fuhrman stuff now. Looking forward to hearing you are getting good results with that too! I am doing much better now that I can do some exercise. Energy isn't quite what it was yet - but healing takes time -- and I sure am throwing fantastic healthy food at that little issue. Because of that, I know I'll be good as new & faster than most! Always good to hear from you

Dissolution: Wow, interesting on the swimming information. The thing that struck me was the thermal effect that he is getting. I'd never thought about that angle as much of a contributor. As I am in a "hot water pool" 92 to 94 degrees, I am sure I am getting some of that too.

Usually what I have read puts swimming (laps at a good pace) at a loss of 500 cals./hr. As we are only doing 20 minutes of aerobics because it's hot water I don't know that I am getting that much. On-the-other hand it's done in the "intervals method" so, I think it's actually better than the above lap figure, but less time.

Additionally, the resistance can't be discounted either - even though we are not doing 100% aerobics we are getting our muscles coming and going, so its a very thorough work out as well.

I wouldn't doubt that Nathan is up on this info you summarized. So next week I try to get his analysis of that information from a sport medicine perspective and also his idea of how many calories we might be burning from his work outs. So glad you brought this up - as I never really thought to tie this down in a calories burned/hr way.

I do know for sure that when I am swimming regularly, eating right and getting good sleep, I loose from .5 to 1 lb. per session, which makes me pretty happy

Thanks again Michelle, for your nice post on my journal! I've finished reading yours, and oh my gosh, I see that you had gall bladder surgery. In the fall my very healthy daughter, age 27, needed gallbladder surgery. We had a great doctor who had done thousands of these, and who thought it would all go well. As it turned out, she had some major abdominal abnormalities, had to be rushed by ambulance to Atlanta (4 plus hours away) and have surgery to save her life within 24 hours! All went well, and she is fine, but it was awful. While she was recovering, the doctor suggested that I get her some food from the cafeteria because the hospital food was so bad for her! At least in the cafeteria I could get salads and lots of fresh fruit. The fruit on the patients tray was the canned kind. What are hospitals thinking??
Anyway, back to your journal, I'm glad that we are on this journey together, and I'm glad that you are doing so well. I feel like I need to look into a place to take water aerobics. I took a class years ago, but the pool was always so cold for the lap swimmers. I don't know if I could find one with a warm pool. I'll check in later. Take care, LauraA

Hey Michelle,

I just wanted to say congrats on the weight loss this week! I am glad you could get back to the pool and are on track with your recovery. You are an inspiration to never give up! I am rooting for ya!

Colleen

Laura: OMG, what a trial you all went through with your daughter's surgery - I am so glad she is all better now!! I had to chuckle about the part where her food had to come from the cafeteria though - I did exactly the same thing!

Actually, I spent 2 days in the hospital ER, while they were taking tests on me and CT scans and what not. I got to eat not a morsel of food, just water for those two days. (Lost 6 pounds though - wish it all stayed off, hehehe).

When I was sprung, even thought the nitro they gave me (just in case it was a heart attack) and the other meds gave me a terrible headache and a huge dose of nausea - I was still hungry. I wanted fruit terribly and a salad! So off to the cafeteria I went, luckily that is where they store the healthy food.

I am hoping never to see a hospital again - but I learned this from FrozenVeg's recounting of her gall bladder surgery - if you have the time you can get with the hospital's dietitians/nutrition staff and design your own vegan meals or any other kind. Now that is cool! But the rest of that food they serve - well Saint's Preserve us - if we have to eat that crap!

Coleen: Wow - me an inspiration - I chuckle at that too. I am like the lowest person on the totem pool with weight loss, but I guess I am strong on the tenacity end! It's true I don't give up. And even I am a stunned at the challenges that get thrown my way and I just have to keep on truckin".

I mean gee whiz who'd be thinking on this diet your gall bladder would scream "yank me now!" Even my dear Doctor said I should try to just keep up with what I am doing and see if the dang thing would settle down. Well - nope

But mostly, thanks for your great support - you made my day, nah, that's good for a whole month!!!!!!

As for how it's going: Well, I am kind of mad at myself for spending the huge amount of $150 for the ASW downloads, not that it's not fantastic and I am learning tons - well, it wasn't in the budget. I am really nervous about the possibilty of getting some huge medical bills in the mail - I could just call and find out - but I am doing well on not spending because of this latent anxiety. Which is to say it's working for me, so I not going to rock the boat on that

Still, it looks like 3 days in the hospital is only going to cost me $65 of copay. That is amazing! I am going to try to keep my medical costs to a complete minimum in future just to show my complete gratitude to them on that, hehehe - I am nice that way

So yesterday I did like nothing but watch the ASW and am completely enjoying it. Plus, I got to see FrozenVeg introduced by Dr. McD on it. She is like a major hero to me - (well all the Star McDougallers are and everyone of us sticking to this day by day) - but FV just majorly hit some chords with me on the walking issues she was having, before McDougal.

Plus, Dr. McD actually described her cool mind method of looking at a table and seeing the SAD food as NOT FOOD example - when he introduced her. What she does is she sees SAD food as not anymore edible then the forks, knives or table clothes when she encounters it. Really, I am glad he cited that because to me it's just such simple genius and boy it's working for me too.

Today I got back to walking - and it was not a breeze. I had to tell myself driving over to the flatest route I can find in my hilly little town - that I'd just try for 20 minutes. I just am not getting the energy back, though I have been doing everything I can think of to pack in energy foods that work for me. Greens galore: collards, mustard greens, spinach - I even ate some native "Miner's Lettuce" along the trail this morning, , but still the energy wanes. I hope the sunshine I got helps too, as they say natural vitamin D has an actual huge energy punch to it too - I think that's covered in one of Dr. McDs newsletters.

Anyway, still not getting anywhere with energy, but the pain is going down a lot and getting back to what I am used to on this WOE. So I am going for patience and have to be happy with myself that I got in 30 minutes of walking, by just doing one more step, every step of the way.

Now I think I treat myself to some oatmeal and see if Debbie has posted our weight loss for the week. Absolutely nothing cheers me up like seeing how well we are all doing!!!!!! Hmm, and then I think maybe I watch another module of the ASW - oh that's a good reward for getting the walking done

Laura, I am so glad your daughter is OK. What an ordeal!

Michelle, when my MIL was in the hospital for congestive heart failure, they had her on pudding, steak and whole milk - which she devoured with gusto; she does not eat this way. So the huzz and I went on a quest to find healthy food somewhere in that hospital - there was not a bit! There was an In-N-Out partition in the cafeteria, where all the staff was eating, I might add, and no fresh fruit or salads to be found that did not look old, bruised or wilted.




I was so tempted to get that the other day - defintiely not in our budget either, but so very tempting! I am glad I can vicariously experience both the enjoyment and the financial regret through you, Michelle



Very nice, indeed; they should pay you!


Michelle, I hope your energy returns soon! Keep rockin', and ASW-it-up as a reward; it is well deserved. Maybe I'll drive up the coast and watch it with you