Discussion Board

L, may I call you "L"?

I learned a lot from Burgess' writings too, and for some reason minimized the effect seeds might have on me. For him, if I understand correctly, it's not just the tomato seeds, it's most seeds in general.

All I do know is that it is amazing to me how something so small can make such a difference in how we feel.

Have you been off work for a while? Don't overdo on your first day back, have a great day ~

Kathryn

Hi Kathryn,

Yes, i've been off all seeds and have only been eating quinoa, fruit, veggies, and potatoes (mostly sweet) and yams. The tomatoes were a new item this week, and I bought them because they looked tasty and were a veggie (usually one of the only safe options for me), not remembering that they have seeds!

So far, i have found Burgess' results to be very similar to mine. It has been helpful to read his story because it gave me a starting point...less hit and miss.

I only missed work yesterday. Yesterday was a lighter work day for me anyway, and I knew I would be able to reschedule my appointments without too much trouble. I really need to go into work today so hopefully I feel strong enough to go. I really do think the tomatoes caused my latest troubles...

I'm enjoying reading about your journey as well KMD. Sounds like we have some similar issues.

Thanks
"L" (the lfwfv stands for "low fat, whole foods, vegan" by the way)

As today progressed, I started feeling better. I then ate--no tomatoes!! And...drumroll please.....no crazy, ridiculous bloating and extremely debilitating stomach cramps. Praise the Lord! I felt like I was floating. Unbelievable. My intestines are still churning a little, and I still have a bit of bloat and fatigue, but it's way way way better. I feel like a huge cloud has lifted.

Last night, I was literally crying in bed because I felt so hopeless...I was eating such a limited diet, and I was still in so much pain. Who knew it was just the tomatoes that were making me so terribly ill?? I prayed for understanding as to what was making me sick and I really think God gave me the idea that 'tomatoes have seeds'. I checked my food journal and realized that my first taste of tomatoes this week correlated with the first crazy stomach ache and diarrhea episode. Then I checked that with Burgess' experience, and realized it fit in with his observations. And then I ate, and ditched the tomatoes, and i didn't get sick!

The gluten poisoning seems to be almost over, and now I've figured out that I need to avoid tomatoes. Feeling so much better. Yeah!!! I hope this keeps up

I am so glad I figured out the tomato thing!

have a good night
lfwfv

Hi lfwfv, I'm so glad you figured out the tomatoes too! Technically, of course, they are fruit, even though we treat them as vegetables.

Oh, dear, sometimes we have to cry, but i hope you don't loose hope - you are on the right path. So often we all just wish we could be there at the end. But for me, at least, when i reach where i wanted to be, i have good memories of the process of getting there. You are being brave, and careful, and thoughtful, and open, and many other good things i don't see yet, as you go along. I'm sure you are becoming a better person in the process.

And there is hope that you will feel perfectly fine for the rest of your life, or at the very least, better than you have been, and better than you are now.

And you are not alone, you have your husband. And us.

Take care. Some days are bad, but overall, things will improve.
Raven

Checking in since I didn't get a chance to last night...

I'm continuing with my non-inflammatory MWL foods. Still some bloat and swelling after eating though.

I needed a lot of food to feel satisfied yesterday and I ate until i was stuffed. I felt miserable afterwards. I try to stop earlier, but I just can't get food off my mind, no matter how long I wait or how engaging the activities I involve myself in. Oh well, maybe it's still my body finding its equilibrium.

I am still feeling like there is some food causing me digestive issues...I am wondering if it could be the vanilla I use in my quinoa sometimes. I think it would qualify as a seed and there's also conflicting evidence as to whether or not the alcohol used in making vanilla is glutenized. I think i should cut it out.

Besides that I only eat:
veggies (except tomatoes and peas)
all fresh fruit (mostly bananas, apples, melons, pineapple, strawberries, peaches)
sweet potatoes, yams, potatoes
quinoa and quinoa flakes
nutritional yeast
cinnamon

So, the obvious culprit would be vanilla. I also drink two cups of coffee daily and I know it could be causing problems but I am sooo reluctant to give it up. It feels like my only indulgence and I love it in the morning. It will be the last to go.

I have never done the official elimination diet, just the diet above because it seems to get rid of all possibly offenders. The elimination diet seems so limiting because of only using select fruits and veggies (it would be very expensive for me) and I hate eating all cooked foods. I will use it as a tool in the future if I still have problems.

Well, need to head to work soon...hope everyone has a good day and I'll probably check in later.

Take care
lfwfv

http://www.google.ca/images?q=strawberr ... CD0QsAQwAw
All those little pecks on strawberries are seeds. Your diet is getting extremely limited, maybe an elimination diet would be good for you because you may be able to add back in some things that you are guessing cause you problems. The E diet on this board is no less limiting that what you are doing now.Just a thought. Have a great day.

Yup, I think I honestly might try this for real. I am so frustrated with my puffed stomach and the pain and fatigue that just seems to linger. Maybe I just really need to give my intestines a break. I am most hesitant to give up the raw foods, and the coffee. I also am wondering if I can eat cooked fruits and veggies besides those listed, but not on the '"avoid" list?

I really think I'll feel the loss of caffeine. I drink 2 cups each morning.

Looking at the list of foods currently on the elimination diet and knowing what I like, I would probably eat the following (all cooked):

sweet potatoes

string beans
celery
lettuce

peaches
plums
apricots
cherries

All the fruit seems expensive and I'd look at getting the canned-in-water kind, or frozen I think.

I'm gonna talk this over with my husband. I'm getting desperate to try anything that will bring me relief for more than 12 hours.

Thanks for your encouragement to go for it Debable.

lfwfv

Hey L,

Sorry to read about the continued trouble. I want to let you know that I can empathize with the coffee debate you're having with yourself. It was hard for me to give up too.

Doesn't coffee play havoc on the gastrointestinal tract?

Good luck on the elim diet if you choose that route. Like debable said, it's not much more restricted than what you're already doing.

Take care,

Kathryn

I'm gonna try the ED. No coffee, only water and seltzer water. yikes. It's been at least 12 years of coffee drinking. Honestly, it doesn't seem to hurt my stomach, but I'm sure it's probably doing damage I'm not aware of.

So, I'll be eating the following:
ALL cooked (very hard for me to give up the raw stuff)
carrots
romaine lettuce
celery
green beans
bananas
apples
cherries
sweet potatoes
winter squash

I hope I can stick with this and that I feel better soon.

I did have somewhat better energy today and actually ran 30 min. again which helped my mood and mind immensely. My stomach is still quite a mess though, and I think my digestive system desperately needs a break.

I think my intestine might just need a bit of TLC so it can truly heal. Maybe then it will tolerate more variety in my diet.

Fingers-crossed
lfwfv

Hi lfwfv,

Here's two links that might help you with caffeine withdrawal:

http://www.caffeinedependence.org/caffe ... withdrawal

http://www.supermarketguru.com/index.cf ... icleId/533

Also Dr. McDougall on green tea:

http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... 0putea.htm

I have not been successful getting off caffeine completely, but i have reduced my intake. Some of us, after the initial 4 to 10 days of woe, actually feel better completely off caffeine. But i think many have said that they had to be completely committed to doing it before they started because once you start feeling the withdrawal, your brain is no help at all, it just wants what i knows - in the short term - makes it feel better.

Laura A has said repeatedly that she got off caffeine by stopping the drink immediately and completely, and then taking Excedrin aspirin, which has caffeine, and gradually reducing the amount over many days, until she was caffeine free. She said she had no addiction to the Excedrin, so it was easy to reduce. And her withdrawal was minimal. This might be the way to go if you have to work during withdrawal.

My husband is very allergic to nutritional yeast, so might need further testing?

Take care. I watch your progress with hope and compassion.
Raven

Hi Raven, thanks for stopping in! I didn't drink coffee today...definitely more tired, and I got a headache this afternoon, but it's gone again now. Maybe there's some grace in the fact that I have always limited myself to two cups per day- perhaps the withdrawal isn't as bad as i feared?? Thank you for the excedrin advice...I am trying not to take anything because I don't want to mess up the elimination diet, but I might consider it if it gets bad.

Nutritional yeast will definitely be one of my first test foods.

I'm almost 24 hours into this, and i think the bloat might be a little less. I am also not making quite as many bathroom trips. I hate the food- mostly the cooked veggies (I really really love the sweetness and crunch of lots of raw veggies). I know that sounds crazy, considering it's not that different from what I was eating before. But the truth is, i am not able to eat the few things that gave me pleasure in my diet before...raw veggies, quinoa, cinnamon, nutritional yeast, coffee, frozen bananas, nori seaweed. I know it might be weird to consider those 'pleasurable' but they truly are to me. I know I will be back to eating those foods soon if they test in safely, but it's hard for today.

I did some more research last night and found I can eat cooked apples and bananas...which are surprisingly tasty! I chopped up one of each and nuked it for 5 min. A tasty dessert!

Other than that my foods today (all cooked):
romaine lettuce
celery
carrots
green beans
sweet potatoes
cherries
apple
banana

I am feeling deprived, and kinda blue. Still tired, still wondering if this will truly get better. I am dying to have energy that lasts longer than two hours at a time. It is very counter to my usual personality to need to lie down for several hours each day.

I am also not quite sure when i can add in raw foods again. The McDougall plan is a little unclear on that. I'm also not quite sure what the point of 'everything cooked' is....just to be easy on my intestines? I mean, if I'm not allergic to it cooked, wouldn't it be fine to eat raw? I can't imagine that raw bananas would hurt me right now...I'm trying to push the doubts away and just follow the diet precisely, but it's hard when i don't understand.

I will probably not run today, but my husband agreed to go for a long walk outside with me once my sweet potatoes, rice/chickpea/veggie meal for my husband, beans, and carrots are all done cooking!!

Take care everyone,
lfwfv

No it doesn't sound crazy. I felt the same way about my raw foods and spices. I will tell you that it got better for me around the 2nd week.

From what I understand, cooked foods are less allergenic than raw. You can have a food not bother you when it's cooked but it might when it's raw.

Good luck to you, L. I sure hope you get some relief soon.

Kathryn

I have (had) irritable bowel syndrome and came to this way of eating through a diet for ibs because I had a severe flareup that lasted for months and months. Raw veg are one of the irritants for ibs ,after the flareup resolves you have to eat raw in small amounts at the end of the meal after starches which are very soothing to the digestive tract. it took me 6 months before I could eat a large amount of raw at a sitting.Even now raw broccoli gives me a lot of pain. I was googling around searching for more info to back up the plan I was on when I found McDougall and I havn't had an episode since. I had diarrhea all day long except for a couple of hours after my morning bm when it was safe for me to leave the house. sometimes I couldn't make it to the bathroom at home ,let alone a public washroom The original site I used isn't veg*n but it has lots of easy to understand info on digestion and irritated digestive systems. She sells some products on her site which i ignored and recommends a metamucil type product. I used store brand metamucil which i stopped when i started McDing. All info on her site isn't good(McD) but it might help you understand what is going on with your body.http://www.helpforibs.com/
On the first page under shipping info is how to break ibs cycle right away and follow the links from there. I know some of it is hokey and she sells stuff but it helped me to recognize what was going on in my body and to know that McD was what I needed when I found it. I hope this is helpful. You may or may not have IBS but you do have inflammation.

Hi KMD and Debable. Thank you both sooo much for your thoughtful and helpful comments.

KMD, it helps me to know it gets easier. Actually my tastes are already adjusting somewhat to the cooked food and I'm figuring out ways to shorten my kitchen prep time. Thank you also for the info about retesting safe cooked foods in their raw state.

And Debable, that site was so informative and seems to really be aligning with my experience.

I know I need to go to a doctor to get some testing done, but the last one I went to was so clueless. They gave me very bad information about my suspected gluten intolerance testing, and had I not known better myself, I could have set myself back several months if I had followed their foolish advice. When I questioned him on it, he admitted I was probably right. Yikes. And this was a specialist! So, I guess I've been burned and i wanted to try and heal this on my own, with my diet before I go back for more bad advice.

I am feeling pretty bad still today...very tired, dizzy, headache. I think this is largely from the caffeine. However, a few good things:

1) I don't hate the food as much.
2) My stomach honestly seems to be more soothed, my bloat is way down and I feel far less intestinal irritation. Almost no diarrhea. I think the biggest help, and also the step i resisted the most, has been cooking all my food. I honestly think I might have been doing a lot of damage with all the raw foods I was eating. i felt the raw foods should be 'healing', but maybe they're not such a good idea when your intestines and stomach are in great distress. Cooked veggies, fruits and starches are starting to make my tummy feel better...at least so far.
3) I slept very well last night...only woke up once instead of my usual 7-8 times! Could this be related to the 2 cups of coffee I used to drink each morning??

I want to feel better, i want to give my intestines a chance to heal. I only hope I can sustain this way of eating and do what I need to do to get better. My husband is extremely supportive and sees this as the last alternative before I really need to consider 'traditional' medicine, which we both want to avoid. I think they have so few answers for intestinal issues, and i don't want to undergo massive amounts of invasive tests if i can heal my intestines (whatever is wrong with them) just by eating the right foods.

Part of me wants a clear diagnosis, but part of me is guessing that they will label me with IBS which is just a catch-all for "we don't know what's wrong" and at that point, i'm pretty much left to sort out solutions on my own anyways. Right now, I feel like, why not skip the middleman and search for solutions on my own first.

Well, off to work...
lfwfv

lfwfv, I've been reading through your thread and we share so many common allergens and allergenic responses. I too, am waiting on tests to determine what else could be causing skin rashes, and also for me, swollen glands in my neck.

I recognize it as food allergy. But unlike you, I'm not lean. I've also spent time McDougalling and am currently following ETL. Both doctors encourage an ounce of nuts or less daily. I just know that when I was eating no nuts or fats, my fingertips cracked and I itched all over. That was a few years ago. But I got my start in health right here on this site.

I also like the emphasis on less protein, on the McDougall plan. But like you, I'm a lover of fruits and veggies and overeat fruit. I shoot for over a pound of raw and of cooked veggies daily--the ETL plan. And I seem to have a switch that doesn't turn off once I start eating--making me eat in excess, stuffing myself. I recognize it as food addiction.

Meanwhile, all the food allergies and questions about food allergies makes thinking about food and food avoidance, a constant thing. I think once we both get those lab tests completed, we can be more certain about what to avoid.

BTW- I tried the all cooked elimination diet and didn't even make it a whole day. So much of what I love to eat is raw.

Here's hoping we can solve some mysteries soon.