Discussion Board

Can anyone help me out with the definitions of gluten intolerance and sensitivity and celiac disease? I have so many questions and it seems that everything I read makes me more muddled.

If someone is sensitive to gluten, and has IgG antibodies to it, are they also considered gluten intolerant AND to have celiac disease? Or just gluten "intolerant"? Or is that the same as saying the person is celiac but NOT the same as merely being "sensitive"?

What about other food IgG antibodies along with wheat and/or gluten, are those part of the deal or a separate issue? Or is it all caused by something that made a person have a leaky gut syndrome in the past?

Or maybe, everyone is different and it's a chicken or the egg what came first thing?

I see that now some doctors are diagnosing someone as celiac if they are sick and then get better after eliminating gluten. Others say there has to be a challenge with gluten, others want to see biopsies showing flattened villi. I guess I'm not surprised there is varying opinions among doctors.

If anyone has all the answers, please let me know. Meanwhile I'm applying duct tape to my head in case it explodes later on this week.....

OK then there's the wooden spoon issue. I have three wooden spoons and spatulas and a large cutting board that have really heavy sentimental value. I use them every day. Now just today I read that I have to throw them away. I am still using them. Can anything be done to these so I can keep on using them?

Mrs. Doodlepunk, it IS confusing! The gold standard for a celiac diagnosis is flattened villi. Slowly, some doctors are recognizing that some people feel much better when they don't eat gluten. Gluten can cause not only digestive issues but also neurological ones in people that are sensitive or intolerant (I use those terms interchangably) - even if they don't have celiac disease.

I feel your pain about the wooden kitchen tools. I bought new cutting boards, quit using my wooden spoons, and threw away my toaster. However I kept my cast iron pans. By the time I learned about the gluten staying in cast iron, I figured I'd used it long enough since I'd been gluten free that it was probably gone by then (hope that was right!).

GLUTEN STAYS IN CAST IRON?

Interestingly, our dog has had a couple of seizures in the past few weeks and is now on drugs for epilepsy. I found out that his food was one of the worst ones for causing problems, and that lots of dogs have seizures caused by gluten, corn, soy, and dairy.

The more I read, the more I think we are all getting leaky gut and becoming allergic to our food.

There are many different levels to Gluten intollerance... some people get very very ill from it... those are the ones who usually get a diagnosis of Celliacs disease.

I think if you just eliminate gluten from your diet for a few weeks and see how you feel that would be the best indication.

I wouldn't worry about the spoons or cutting board or the caste iron frying pan unless you have been on the gluten free diet for several months and are still having problems.

Then try to find what else it is hidden in.


most people do not need to go to those kind of extremes to have relief.

also you may want to eliminate fruit too for the first few weeks becuause if you have IBS that may be also irritating your gut.

as to leaky gut syndrom.. I am thinking if you have an allergy to wheat but are having pain in your lower intestine, thaen more than leaky gut you probably have some ulcers(sores) in your intestine from the gluten and they are irritated. They will be swollen painful spots on your sides .. I get those.. they go away when you stop eating gluten.
I also get lower intestinal cramps when I eat gluten too and constipation. and gas... so cut out the wheat.. you will probably start to feel better in three days.

some things take longer to heal up... the rashes and dermatitus can take up to six months to heal, but most people see results quickly and skin clearups within the first three weeks.
I know my athletes foot condition took three months to be mostly healed up and a full six months to completely go away.

Some places where gluten is hidden..

pretty much any mixed spices, or salad dressings you get from the grocery store.

any packaged foods in the store .. iT is used as a thickener and as a way to keep things from sticking together too.

Also some grains including rice will have cross contamination from the equipment it is processed on. that is why many of us use specific name brands that we know are clear of contamination..

Lundburg rice or Bob's red mill for example.

I only buy Quaker whole rolled oats for example for my oatmeal. I do not get their instant oats or any cheap varieties .. I also avoid any of the instant packaged oats that you see in the store..I have found them all to contain gluten.

You may also need to eliminate corn products too for a while to see if they are bothering you also.

Watch out for spagetti sauces in the store ... it is another gluten thickend product there.

It takes a bit of getting used to but you will find yourself feeling better and your skin will look better and your tummy will thank you.


There are rice noodles out there for spagettis and caseroles...and of course a wide variety of potatoes and winter squashes to be consumed as your starches.

Sorry that was such a long post but I also wanted to add.. for shear healing power be sure to consume some type of greens everyday turnip spinach or other (cooked of course but also raw if you like) I don't know what it is about them but they are very healing for the gut... I just have been seeing this since I started eating them here as I McDougall.

Hi Mrs. D,

I recently attended a gluten intolerance/celiac lecture, one by a gastro and one by a naturopath. They both said that in order for the blood antibody tests to be positive there has to be significant damage to the gut. They both felt that some people who have gluten intolerance may actually be in the beginning stages of celiac disease. If that's the case then the blood tests would be negative or inconclusive. The only difference between gluten intolerance and celiac is the presence of collapsed villi in the intestine. The only way to know that is with an endoscopy and biopsy. Many of us go on a gluten free diet before we get to see a doctor. In that case, the doctor and patient have to choose whether or not to do a gluten challenge and then do the testing. I and others generally don't want to do that. Who wants to make themselves sick again? You can get genetic testing done to see if you have the genes associated with the disease. Something like 98% of people with celiac have one or both of these genes. If you don't have the genes, then it's very unlikely you have celiac disease of will develop it. If you do then the possibility is there.

I have found that I'm also sensitive to other foods. For a while, I couldn't tolerate lemon juice or anything with citric acid. Now I find I'm also sensitive to corn and sesame. Raw cherries really give me grief and have for a while. I think this may change as I heal.

Keep a food diary of everything you eat and any symptoms you have. I have done this and it has really helped me pin down problem foods.

At least in Canada, I understand that single spices are gluten free but read labels carefully concerning spice blends as they can sometimes contain gluten used as a filler. There are several recipes around for making up your own spice mixes. I've been avoiding veggie stock powders etc.

As far oats are concerned, I can't eat them. I tried certified gluten free oats and although I didn't have any gut reaction to them my body went into emergence alert mode. I had insomnia and heart palpitations for 3 weeks! But I think you have to find certified gluten free oats. Oats that have been grown in a field that has never been used to grow other glutinous grain and harvested with equipment that has never been used to harvest other glutenous grain and processed it a facility that doesn't process glutenous grain. Plus it still needs to be tested for the presence of gluten. The oat plant and seed look so similar to wheat rye and barley and they don't sort through the grain at the plants. I hate to say it but I don't think quaker oats fit that criteria.

Hope that helps to answer your questions. Also I find ginger to be fantastic with the inflammation. Put it in smoothies, grate it and squeeze the juice out and add to hot water with lemon and honey (now while it's hot outside make a batch and put it in the fridge for a refreshing cool drink), or salad dressings or soup, even dried powdered ginger is good.

RRC

RRC, the stuff from that lecture is just what I've been suspecting.

What is so interesting and frustrating - well just ONE of the things that's so frustrating - about all this is that there are so many symptoms of food sensitivities and they can range over all body systems.

When I was in my late teens I worked in a bakery. I started breaking out in giant hives. We never figured that out either. Shortly after that I started having symptoms of what I believe was early hypothyroidism but it wasn't diagnosed for many years later.

My son was about 2 weeks old when he started with nystagmus. He was breast fed and I was eating SAD and plenty of wheat products. He also had eczema pretty bad as an infant. As the years go by his sensitivities as far as his skin seem improved - he no longer has hives if his skin is scratched, for instance - but he still has the nystagmus and still gets slight flares of eczema. His eyelids are always a bit puffy and he had a chronic cough and was always clearing his throat. I was thinking that he was going to develop asthma.

Now after over a month of being as gluten free as I know how to be (and still using the wooden spoons and cutting board my Daddy made for me.... ) his cough is GONE. His throat clearing has stopped too. Well, it came back for a day or two after they did an overnight at grandparent's house where there is mildewy/moldy stuff. I also think that his nystagmus is improved but everyone else thinks I'm imagining it because I WANT it to be improved. But he is making eye contact more now, something he didn't do often before. He just had an eye exam and his long distance vision is a bit better, but his close up vision needed more correction. That is very interesting.

Anyway, this discussion is interesting. I wonder if we DO have the genetic markers for celiac. It might be worth checking into.

Did your lecturers have anything to say about LDA or low dose allergen shots? This is what our doctor is recommending.

Kittyadventures - I have talked to someone I know who has dermatitis herpetiformis who can eat gluten free oats, but NOT Quaker Oats. We no longer have regular oats and I only buy certified gluten free. I use Bob's Red Mill, ordered from Amazon with a subscribe and save option they are a bit cheaper. Like RRC says, Quaker Oats are not gluten free. But, my son is sensitive to oats so no more oats for him!

It's amazing how long the list is of things he's sensitive to. Some are in the "very low" category and the doctor says to go ahead and eat those foods. If we had to avoid those, there would be almost nothing left for him to eat. I'm thinking that because of the limitations, he will be eating the same foods all the time and develop sensitivities to those foods too.

The only quaker oats I can eat are the rolled ones all others bug me...I am also able to eat a little bit of Rye bread as long as it is in small doses.

Hi Mrs. D,

The lectures said nothing about allergy shots. Celiac is not an allergy but an auto-immune response to the presence of gluten where the body destroys the intestinal wall in an attempt to protect itself from the offending invader. There is no way to change this. Gluten free diet is the only cure. It seems that this immune system trigger also starts a chain reaction of inflammation, like the body is on high alert, all over. I had pain in my ankle an knee joints, migraine auras, vertigo, inflammation in my hands and feet in addition to bloating and gas. All that is calming and dissipating with time and careful eating. But I've heard of other seemingly unrelated problems being caused by celiac too.

Celiac is truly one disease where the only cure is food. By the way, if you have celiac you CAN NOT eat any gluten. You are damaging yourself even if you don't have a reaction. Best not to test food with your gut.

About your wooden cutting board etc. Can you clean them thoroughly with bleach and/or soap and them maybe sand them down and refinish them? Same with your cast iron pan? Just a thought.

I am no expert on food allergies/intolerances but maybe as your son's gut heals he will be less sensitive to certain foods? I hear it can take a long time in some people-like two years.

RRC

So many people don't understand (or aren't willing to consider) how what we eat impacts us. If you are seeing improvement, that's what is important, and it really doesn't matter what others think (although validation is nice!)!



This is where we are. When we went gluten-free, we said a vegan diet was so easy before we had to eliminate gluten. Then we said a vegan and gf diet was so easy if only we could eat soy. Then we said a vegan, gf, soy-free diet would be a snap if only we could have corn and tomato...

Jamie I love your quote! I am new to McDougalls discussion board. This is my first post. But I can relate entirely! And I thought I was alone in the world! Haha! My son is gluten free, soy free, vegan, and we are contemplating removing apples, tomatoes, and corn. Thank you for your post!

Welcome aboard Mahre!