Discussion Board

Me too!



Congratulations! My problem runs the other way - trying not to lose weight!



Thanks, I'd like that too. I can really tell if I eat something with sodium now, even baking soda makes a difference to me.

Jamie, I'm trying to wrap my brain around what it's like not trying to lose weight. I still have over 30 to lose--having not been a great weight since late teens.

My sodium cheats are Tabasco sauce and an occasional teaspoon of low sodium mustard or unsweetened ketchup. I don't worry about sodium in baking soda or baking powders--as I no longer eat baked goods, flours or processed sugars.

Pretty much, I sweeten with dates or raisins for specialty foods and must keep them in the garage freezer, otherwise. Too much temptation for me to indulge.

For the most part, my starches are brown rice, sweet potatoes, yams, and scotch oats--with occasional corn and white potatoes.

I also am a recovering diabetic--I say that because I'm no longer in diabetic condition or using any drugs. But I have kidney concerns--meaning I watch protein amounts--keeping them lower that you might.

Here are a few questions for you. What do you think of these?

Soy in herbal teas. Why?
Soy in horseradish. Why?
Salt in chili powder. Why?

Jellen,

Wow! That's great that you're able to avoid medicating for diabetes with your diet! I read a book by Brenda Davis and Tom Barnard (I think - it was one of the Barnards) a few years ago called Defeating Diabetes. They advocate a vegan diet, but they're into the healthy fat thing. That whole healthy fat fad led me astray for a long time.

That's great that you don't do the processed flours/sugars! For years, I've sweetened with dried fruit or maple syrup, but after reading Jeff's comments again and again, I'm starting to believe that sugar is sugar is sugar. Sigh. But a raisin is closer to the whole food than white sugar, right?

I love my starches! I usually have grains for breakfast: brown rice or quinoa or buckwheat groats or (recently) gf oats. I also eat a lot of yams and potatoes, and less frequently squash. Corn is one of those foods that I should avoid, but I'm not 100% yet.

My goal is to keep the legumes under one cup per day, but it varies by day, and some days I go way over.



LOL! Why indeed? Only those of us that are excluding so many things from our diets know how pervasive dairy or gluten or soy or corn or tomoto or "fill in the blank" is!

Jamie, I'm a hybrid of both doctor's advice--Dr. McDougall and Dr. Fuhrman. I believe that Dr. McDougall understands the importance of limiting protein, but I believe Dr. Fuhrman understands the importance of a little healthy nut/seed fat. I include a T. ground flaxseed per day and an ounce of nuts/seeds. When I was following the McDougall plan only, I was deficient of fats and had serious dry skin issues.

When I was following the McDougall plan, but was eating processed grain, I ended up with very high triglycerides. Eating less grain and starch on the Furhman plan, my triglycerides are down and I've lost more weight--plus blood sugars came way down. I don't get as much grain, but I get more fruit and nuts. Some days I eat more like a McDougaller and some days more like a Fuhrmanite.

But I can tell you that the days I eat more grain, the next morning scale is going to read a pound or two higher.

My sugar of choice is dates and sometimes raisins. I've used maple syrup some, but need to avoid it as it offers no fiber and is relatively nutrient deficient. I still can't eat oatmeal or scotch oats without dried fruit or other sugars.



I think both plans are good for many people, but when there are specific health concerns, one may have it over the other.

Yes, ultimately we all have to make the decision for ourselves. I've found its easier for me (personally) to stick with one program, as I really strayed when I was trying to mix and match. I believe the McDougall program is fine with 1-2oz of nuts/seeds, but maybe not on MWL? I used to snack on nuts (by the handful ), and now I limit myself to flax seeds and walnuts (for the omega 3's) that I incorporate into "some" meals/dishes.

I'm the same. I use pumpkin seeds and walnuts mostly, and always have my T. ground flaxseed daily. Burgess--from here, uses hazelnuts because they are not acid-forming. What do you know about acid-forming foods, or do you even pay any attention to that?

This sounds very good. Do you know if it would work with kale? I'm not supposed to eat spinach due to the oxalic acid content.

This is something I shall keep in mind. I wonder if brown rice makes into chips with greens, as well? I have so many recipes of seasoning mixes, some from here--combos of mixes for potatoes. This is going to be my next experiment. Thanks.

Jellen, I don't pay special attention to acid-forming foods ... unless the food doesn't agree with me! I left spinach out of my diet for a few years, because I was afraid it would inhibit the absorption of iron (or was it calcium?), but now it is my favorite raw green (along with romaine lettuce), and kale and collards are my favorite cooked greens! Do you do any sprouting?

Carroll, thanks for the great tip on quinoa/spinach crackers! We'll definitely try them!

Jamie, I've tried sprouting, but I'm a total failure at it. I end up with sog. No problem, I eat at least a pound of raw greens per day.

I have kale with chopped fruit for breakfast, a super size green salad of a whole heart of romaine with soup and fruit for lunch, and steamed cruciferous veggies with starch and fruit for dinner. And my eyesight has improved since focusing on greens.

We eat a lot of homemade soups. My husband likes to use vinegar (balsamic, red wine, white wine, apple cider) for added flavor. Should I be worried about the gluten-free status of the vinegars?

Jamie, I'm not sure. Perhaps someone with a few more years of this can chime in and let us know. Whatl I mostly worry about with balsamic vinegars is that some (from Italy) have lead in them.

well I looked it up

here is what I found
http://www.drgourmet.com/ingredients/ba ... egar.shtml

I would say read your labels and go for the real stuff if you can find it... but this explains why some bug me and some don't.

IF the flavorings they add are wheat based it will bug me if not I am fine
We currently have some at home that is fine but one of the restaurants I used to go to had one that I could not eat at all

In fact it is why I pretty much quit eating dressings. I just got to the point where if I would eat one I would have issues and if I just squirted on some lemmon or lime juice I was fine.


Also Jellen

can you give a brief description of the furhman diet
I am very curious about it.

A couple other people have mentioned it because of triglycerides etc.

I've been on both diets and actually, my triglycerides were higher on M. Everyone hears about all the fruit and panics. It's 4 servings of fruit per day, and lower sugared ones are stressed for diabetics and those with metabolic concerns.

There's an ounce of nuts/seeds per day so you don't end up with gallbladder trouble or heart arrithmias. On the ounce per day, I still lose weight and no longer battle dry cracked fingertips like I had on M.

There's no added oil--with exception of lightly greasing a cooking pan or a tiny tad in a dressing. No added sodium is advised. Greens are emphasised and supported with root starch or grain. For those needing to lose on the strict diet plan, only one cup per day of starch. I'm usually closer to 1 and a half or 2 cups starch per day.

The diet plan supports a pound of raw and of cooked greens. I have no trouble making this goal. The plan also supports a cup of beans for resistant starch and nutritional profile. I only eat a half-cup per day, as I'm counting protein for kidney concerns. Also, I don't eat any soybeans--but they are allowed.

Root starches are advised for their nutrient profile, but wild rice, brown rice, quinoa, corn, and oats are also choices.

Dr. F. suggests taking a minimal vitamin that doesn't add extra folic acid or Vit. A. He suggests taking additional Vit. D and DHA--which tend to run low in vegans. And he suggests a T. ground flaxseed per day.

As you can see, the 2 plans have more in common than different. That's why I hang out on both forums.

Hope this helps.

Note: Two great reasons I'm a paying member of the Furhman boards are the direct doctor help and the fact that many members are recovering food addicts. Having a food addiction support group has been a wonderful help for me.

Wow they are pretty close actually especially if you angle your mcdougalling toward the information Jeff puts out there.

THanks for sharing that I was wondering what the difference was.

I am trying to add more greens in and cut back on the starches a bit but I also saw where Jeff reccomends eating raw leafys first then your cooked stuff and then at the end your starch and I am thinking I will try that approach to see if it will kick start my weight loss again. I have stalled and am thinking I need to adjust how I am eating.