new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby blue » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:25 am

Michelle
This is my favorite green smoothie recipe these days:

1 to 1.5 cups dark leafy greens (kale, spinach, or swiss chard, etc.)
1/4 cup parsley
1 stick celery
1/2 green apple or pear
1/2 cup sweet potato
1 Tbs fresh ginger
1 to 2 tsp ground turmeric
1/2 cup frozen peaches
1/4 cup frozen pineapple
1.5 cups water

you can also add 2 or 3 dates to make it sweeter, or pumpkin seeds to up the calories and protein. I like mine with a lot of liquid and less frozen stuff, so it comes out more juice-like and easier to drink than your typical ice-based smoothie. A good blender like a vitamix or blendtec is necessary, otherwise the smoothie will be very grainy (icky).
Success using WFPB diet to avoid steroid treatment for polymyalgia rheumatica. I don't hurt anymore :)
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby lmggallagher » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:01 pm

Thanks Blue for the recipe, mmm yummy. I was looking for one for breakfast, but this would work for dessert too :D
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby blue » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:11 am

Cmarie6422 wrote:I am so glad I am not the only one who has gone throught this too, I was first diagnosis with fibromyalgia and they wanted to but me on lyrica I said no, my second doctor didn't think it was fibromyalgia, redid some test and came up with polymyalgia rheumatica and wanted to but me on steriods, I just don't want to be relying on medication and I refused again, I have alway believed that food is the cause of most symptoms, and have decided to follow the Mcdougall way and am hoping for good results, I started going vegan the end of December 2011 and i am feeling better, still a little stiff and not much energy but it has been better then it was at one point I just wanted to die as the pain was so awful :crybaby: but it is slowly getting better. :)
Blue, can you tell me what you eat that causes your flare ups and what you eat that seems to agree with you.


Hi Cmarie
I used the elimination diet on thie Whole life Nutrition website for a couple of months and go back on Phase 1 strictly whenever I'm feeling a pain flareup:
http://www.wholelifenutrition.net/id16.html
Phase 1 food list:
http://www.wholelifenutrition.net/siteb ... phase1.pdf

This one is a good source for recipes. THe collard wraps with sunflower pate are REALLY good!
http://www.nourishingmeals.com/2010/01/ ... t-its.html

In Phase 1 the only legumes alllowed are mung beans and lentils, but I don't like either of those, so I just continued eating my usual beans and didn't seem to have a problem --pintos, red beans, split peas and black eyed peas.

I may have issues with citrus (had some gastric distress when I tried introducing grapefruit and oranges after a month or so) and I'm avoiding strawberries and peanuts because I have a another inflammatory bladder condition (interstitial cystitis,currently in remission) that reacted badly to those. I haven't had a problem with any other fruits or nuts that I can tell.

The green smoothies really agree with me so I make one every morning without fail, and find that it totally sets the tone for how I'm going to eat for the day. I sometimes make a second one for lunch or a snack when I get home from work.

Within a month I determined that the following foods cause me a return of pain and stiffness and/or my face to swell up within 20 mins to 24 hours:
msg
soy
dairy
gluten

I'm not sure about meat/fish but have decided to continue avoiding those as I think it's the best thing to do for my overall health.

Be particularly careful for msg when going out to eat--I thought I was eating "safe" vegetable soups in restaurants but quickly determined that msg (or possibly some other flavoring/preservative) in the soups was causing me pain! Here's a good website to find hidden sources of msg and all the different names it goes by:
http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html

In addition to the weight I had gained from being laid up with pain for over two years, I hadn't realized how swollen and puffy my face had gotten! I can see my cheekbones again for the first time in years--I'm looking like my old self again.

Congrats to you on beginning this new WOE for the new year. :) I'm sure the longer you are on it, you will reap the benefits--improved health, weightloss, and hopefully a great reduction in your pain!!! I hope this WOE is the answer to your prayers, as it has been for me. If nothing else, I think it deserves a good long shot before considering the longterm steroid treatment that is the standard for treating PMR.

Good luck and please keep me posted! Blue
Success using WFPB diet to avoid steroid treatment for polymyalgia rheumatica. I don't hurt anymore :)
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby giddyupgin » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:03 pm

blue wrote:
giddyupgin wrote:
blue wrote:Ok thanks, giddygin, that is what I needed to hear. ;) What kind of pain were you dealing with?

I couldn't roll over in bed at night from the pain in my hands arm and shoulders...when I got up in the morning..I was extremely stiff and couldn't walk flat on my feet...couldn't bend over or kneel down to put on my shoes without much pain...went to the doc...my CRP was sky high and I tested positive for arthritis...new diagnosis of fibro.....went on this new way of eating and within a week symptoms were gone...now 5 months later I go to the gym work all day and no pain and to boot lost 17lbs...


Hi
Did you cut out all gluten? I ask because I had a serious flare up of muscle pain the past two days after eating the last bit of whole wheat pasta I had in my pantry. Never again!


I limit my gluten and wheat products...mainly cause it slows my weight loss...so I rarely have it...but when I do I definitely feel different...
Have a great ride as we ride through life...
from giddy up gin <^__~~ Wooo....hooo...
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby blue » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:17 am

Thx, Gin
Mystery solved--it was the BEER! I didn't realize it has gluten :oops:
Success using WFPB diet to avoid steroid treatment for polymyalgia rheumatica. I don't hurt anymore :)
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby adri » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:02 am

Hi Blue

I am sorry how the girls closed your latest post at the uk forum
I got a private message too they said they will delete me if I continue something about the diet,


i found this forum lately about alkaline discussion
http://acidalkalinediet.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

a few years ago I was doing some research about cancer and discovered that the inflammation could be a first stage of cancer, and that cancer can't survive in alkaline environment , all raw vegetable are alkaline, and some fruits too , all animal products are acidic ,
any green smoothies are very alkaline
also vegetable and fruit have so many antioxidants and preventing cancer , I think they are the most beneficial food sources for the mankind

I wish my hsbd would eat only plant base diet, but I trying to give him as much vegetables and fruit as I can

he still eats chicken breast occasionally ( we buy the hormone free ) and fish because of omega 3 , I have researched for a diet beneficial for the brain and everywhere was omega 3

he is ok, still on prednison and working fulltime, slowly tapering down, and I put a lot of turmeric, ginger in the meals
he drinks only green teas and herbal teas,
nothing process anymore,no sugar, only stevia, or dates, no nideshades . I am cooking everything from scratch, and trying to give him some raw salad every day , I am using flaxseed and olive oil for the salad, and cooking in virgin coconut oil, nuts ad seeds. I research that this coconut oil/fat is very close to mother milk and is very good against viruses,
despite we have a little different diets/ our is oriented on the anti inflammatory , whole food , with some anti inflamatory spices , with healthy fats, and some omega 3 ( fish ), my husband doesn't have any joint pain, occasionally still little headache, because of healing of the GCA or withdrawals form prednisone?, but the pmr pain disappeared completely ,
what he is experimenting is shaking hands, but that might be due losing muscle because of the prednisone, I hope he would start exercise soon,

I recently discovered the website below, and was surprised that you can actually measure the level of the antioxidant in your body
not sure if you watch sometimes Dr. Oz Show ,
it was quite shocking when he measured the whole audience and the people scored quite bad

http://www.lifebylori.com/the-most-powerful-diet-i-know

my green smothie

spinach
carots
wheet grass
grounded flexseeds
kiwis
zeleri
dates

I am trying to incorporate as much alkaline foods in the diet as I can

Adri
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby blue » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:41 pm

Hi Adri! Good to see you here :)

How many mg of pred is your husband on? When does he foresee finishing it up?

That's a great smoothie recipe, thanks for sharing!
Blue
Success using WFPB diet to avoid steroid treatment for polymyalgia rheumatica. I don't hurt anymore :)
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby adri » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:56 pm

in July he started with 50, because losing his eye sight twice,

than he dropped every week 5 mg up to 15mg, than 2.5 mg /week
that was by the changed anti inflamatory diet already
but he started to have headaches more often
and a jaw cladification, it was so bad, that the dentist removed one tooth,

our doctor was laughing , when we figure out ,he was going too fast with the tappering , and the tooth might have been ok
the jaw cladification was a sign that GCA was back

once he was at 3.5 mg, he lost 20 times his eye sight, each eye about 10 times, it was very scary for us

he went back to 40mg in November/ you might see how much he has hated the prednison, he wanted to get of it by end of December
that was the original plan, we hoped that the change in the diet would be enough to fight the disease , unfortunately he had to go back up

the flar was quite bad
he stated on 25 mg for almost a month, now we tapering depend on his symptoms
at 22.5 he had now a cold , but is recovering after 7 days, was afraid if he doesn't get a pneumonia due to prednison his immune system is quite supressed


if there wouldn't be the risk of loosing his eyes he would have been off by now

but we take it slowly now and hopefully he can get off the prednison within one year

once below 5 mg it will be all about recovering and awaking of his adrenals
wish me luck

hope you are doing well !
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby lmggallagher » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:32 am

Hello adri and blue:

Adri I have been reading what you have written about your husbands ordeal, it is all quite harrowing. I am sorry you both have been through this. I am glad you are so aware of what you can do for him and yourself on the food front, surely this will have good results. I wish you both the best - Michelle
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby adri » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:03 am

Thank you for your kind words Michelle
I do what I can and hope it will help
my hsb to recover soon

it is amazing how the food /drug companies reaching for profit
slowly poisoning us
I read somewhere if the trend with the process food /industry doesn't change by 2050 half of the world will be diabetic

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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby Greengranny » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:53 am

Hello Adri, nice to catch up with you from the UK forum. I'm not sure quite what's going to happen there.
It must be so scary that your husband has been in so much danger of losing his sight, and not suprising that he has felt he must stay with the steroid route. Sight is so precious!
But you sound as if you're doing a great job trying to help his general health - it must help him in all sorts of ways even though they're not always obvious. I try and do a bit the same for my husband he takes so many drugs - he has coronary problems, eczema, psoriasis, probably some more not even diagnosed. He likes eating out a lot and always goes for the very sweet cakes, full of fats and sugar and refined flour. But he is not overweight at all, don't know how he does it!
This diabetes thing is a ticking time bomb. Here in the UK we are not far behind you in the US with problems of obesity and diabetes2.
For myself I am nearly off prednisolone, 2mg, after 3 years, trying to get my adrenals up and functioning again and right back to my previous good health which has been damaged not just by polymyalgia, but by the side effects of drugs. This site has so much good information from so many people!
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby Cmarie6422 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:43 pm

Blue, Thanks for the info it has been very helpful.
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby adri » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:48 pm

Hello Green Grany,
nice to meet you here
I couldn't talk about the diet in the other forum
and it is so sad because there are so many with the same condition
My husband did so many changes in his way of eating and I can't complain
but he wouldn't do it until ho got so sick and scared.
I used to give him a big salad with each super because he had some arthritis problems some years ago, which diseapered completely after he changed diet ( tried to follow the zone diet which is close to the Meditarian diet ).
but later on due to stress and him craving for chips and sweets
it started all over this time much worse , with involving his eyes.
I think he is doing considerably well becuase he is back to work
working fulltime. Would like to see faster reducing of prednison, but
we take it easy this time, and if he recovers there will be another battle to get of the prednison completely and kick on the adrenals again.

http://pals2u.tripod.com/id22.html
I receintly started search for a good brain diet, my husband hands shaking quite lot and I was woring about elsheimer or ms or other disease,
I think relaxation and exercise plays a big role of beeing healthy again
this is a part of the link about
---------------------------------
It took Khalsa many years to discover the cortisol connection. He was puzzled by the strong relationship between stress (such as chronic pain) and cognitive dysfunction that he observed in his patients. Very intelligent people would become markedly less cogent as their stress mounted. He also points out that the modern world creates unprecedented levels of neurological stress. We are constantly battered by noise of all sorts not only the noises of modern urban living, but also information overload. Add to this the relentless struggle to survive and succeed. We are simply trying to do too many things, sometimes all at the same time (proudly calling it multi-tasking rather than brain-destroying stress).
Chronic stress did indeed turn out to be a very important cause of mental decline. Conversely, keeping cortisol levels low apparently preserves brain health and cognitive skills.
As Khalsa puts it, the more damage to the brain a person has suffered, the harder it is for him or her to turn off stress. When this happens, the person reacts even more strongly to stress and therefore suffers even more damage to the shut-off mechanism.

For many years you may have been pushing yourself through one stressful day after another, and this has probably physically damaged both your memory and your fluid intelligence. When you endure stress on a regular basis, you chronically over secrete brain-destroying cortisol

Unfortunately, when cognitive function declines, people tend to push themselves even harder, to compensate for the decline. Thus a degenerative cycle is created. No wonder midlife professionals so often suffer from burnout. It is a classic case of brains fried in cortisol

After prolonged exposure to stress, we often feel emotionally numb. Even when the stress is over, we can hardly feel any pleasure. We are burnt out.
The destructive kind of stress involves a feeling of being overwhelmed and unable to cope. The resulting irritability, depression, inability to concentrate and think clearly and feelings of inadequacy and helplessness lead to even more stress. If such severe stress continues, the result is chronic high levels of cortisol, with devastating consequences for the brain, including memory loss and overall cognitive decline.
--------------------------------------------
This is pretty much what has happend to my husband,
I suggest to read it

the bad cravings he had through the increased cortisol/ brought the GCA I think and a high inflamation ( chips and sweets )

and I notice when he has a lot of stress now even with the good diet he gets more headaches . Prednison increasing his cortisol
so I woud like him to be off soon. Hopefully one day.

If you put together that most of us are stressed out all the time, having a bad nutrition and more and more poluted environment
no wonder that so may are sick.

I think it is scary with the new generation / kids eat way too much process food and ton of sugars today , they will be all sick by turning 20

If you love your husband get him of the sugar !
You can use stevia, make him your own cookies from oat meal
I would use coconut virgin oil, or butter , and rasins,

I sometimes prepare for my husband a litle cake which I don't bake
or you can roll some balls,
I use ripe banana , mash it, mix with rasins, soaked oatmeal, if i need flowers I use brown rice flower , you can put any dry fruit, it will be more sweet, or use dates, or almond flowers, you can put some nuts in it if you wish and make the bals, or form a cake roll in shreded coconut and put in the fridge,
than slice later

psoriasis is an antiinflamatory illness , if you change his diet he might get rid of it
our oldest sone had one time a very bad rash, the doctor figure out that it was psoriasis and was given a stereoid cream,
I mostly force the kids to eat healthy too , it is 6 months now and he didn't have any flare yet.

you should get him off the bad fats, the worst one are the vegetable hydrogenated oils , they are omega 6 and cause a lot of inflamation, they are in any baked ,prepared food , in cookies, in salad dressings, soups etc. Use rather virgin olive oil.

I like to watch Dr. Oz show, even kids watching it now. There is always something new.
I hope you get better and do not stop looking and reading
I agree this forume has interesting links ,
even I don't agree totaly with the diet
what side efects do you have from prednison ?

Adri
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby Greengranny » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:13 am

Yes, that makes fascinating reading Adri! So much to think about!
First, I absolutely agree about the stress element!! Yes! There were many people on the other forum who could trace back their PMR/GCA to a very stressful event. That may just be the trigger though to an underlying tendency. Too much fight/flight responding to modern life!
I do notice several people on this forum have mentioned meditation as being a useful tool.

Second, so that makes me think that although diet is all important we need to look at our all round life style too. I have a great thing about trying to simplify life style - but that's such a big subject probably needs another thread. I could go on for hours!! But the McD food plan is a pretty simple one when you think about it - what could be simpler than eating plant food the way our ancestors did?

Then you ask about the side effects of prednisone. I am only on a very low dose now and many of them have gone. As you probably know there are at least 80! Some have to be verified medically, diabetes, osteoporosis, raised BP etc - those are probably the most serious. I certainly put on weight round my middle and face, my skin has got very thin so the smallest bump turns into a bad bruise or wound, also the really bad insomnia, getting very emotional, particularly weepy, and, of course, the muscle loss. Probably some more which have come and gone. Of course, not everybody gets all of them, a friend of mine has none at all ......
So you can see how diet will help your husband with any weight problems, and it is so good he is at work. I must say now I am down to 1.5 mg pred a lot of my problems with side effects have now resolved. I am going to a physio to get some gentle exercise to build up the muscles again, and, of course, more exercise helps with the insomnia.
But I'm sure helping your husband with his diet so that it helps with his general health is absolutely the best thing you can do.
Thanks for the tip about using dates - my hbd loves them so will try and use them more to satisfy his sweet tooth.
You keep well yourself - you've had a lot to cope with!
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Re: new-- vegan for chronic muscle pain/inflammation

Postby adri » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:29 pm

I know one guy who healed his GCA , he was also under a lot of stress, and losing his vision, he went to doctor but he refused take the prednison,
what he told me , he quit his job, staied home ,he drank only liquids, mostly water for a month, slept a lot and rested. He started to meditate
after a month his body healed. He said every day meditaion make him a better man, his recomendation is to stop this fight and flight by limiting the tasks to max. 3 at the day , what ever he can't finish he put in the next day. That is actually what Tony Robins says that human are capable to resolve , or deal only with 3 things, if it becomes more,they are overwelmed.
So there is a hope at the end of the tunnel
I watched Dr Oz show yesterday and I saw Montel Williams , my hsb told me he has MS. I wouldn't believe it, he looks so healthy, great body, he must be lifting weights every day.

About the side efects, prednison makes people more hungry,if they eat process food or lot of white bread, white potatoes and milk, cheese, unhealthy fats , they will gain weight. My husband didn gain anything , actually looks much small/ but that because he lost muscles.
So because he cut out sugar from the diet he is fine. Even he consume lot of nuts and dry fruit, but his blood sugar is normal, that;s why no diabetes
osteoporosis- I read a lot before, some of mine aunts have the osteoporosis, doctors usually recomend increase calcium through drinking more milk and cheese.
I figure out if your body is too acidic ( all animal products are acidic ) it will interefere with the calcium absorbtion, because your body would take the calcium to try to neutralize from your bones,
so people they do not eat raw vegetables , drinking green juices or smoothies they might develope thin bones.
if you want to have a strong bones, you need lot of alkaline drinks, green leafy vedgetables are very good, kale, spinach ,romain, also all grasses / I give my hsb wheat grass ( a scoop) each day in his green drink and excersice should be a must on stereoids, actually lifting weights should be the best for the body
I think I posted some links before about the alkaline diet,
my husband has a thin skin too, I can see it on his hands, the weins just poping out, that might improve once he is off, and with good nutrition I hope you can get a better skin,

the emotional part is really horribly, he used to be so angry, he was driven a car so fast that I though he is going to kill us, and so irritated about small things, he told me that the drug make him so much emotional unstable,,
but something has happend, latelly he is pretty good,
and he doesnt' had any more brain fog ( that was in the early stage of the illness /I think that was the GCA / or the brain was damage by cortisol )
if you read the whole article I put the link to the exert there is a hope and you can reverse the damage done to the brain from the stress.


have a great thing about trying to simplify life style - but that's such a big subject probably needs another thread

what is it ? may be we can start a new thread for it

have a great weekend
Adri
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