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Hi all

A light clicked on a few days ago as I read the McDougall material on the internet for the first time. I've been eating decent food for a long time but pigging out sometimes. I'm not overweight but was eating like a hog to the point of gluttony. French fries are a favorite. I do have a few health problems.....

What came to me was to abandon all cooking oil. I read Dr McDougall's evaluation of oils & fats and our need for them and was convinced. So three days ago I started my ZERO OIL program but allowed myself a tuna fish sandwich with a ripe avocado. Ripe avocados are hard to find so when I saw one I said to myself--- This is the finale. My last bit of fun. Yes I will eat some seeds and nuts in the far off future. Dr McDougall says OK in small amounts....

But no vegetable oil or animal food yesterday or today. Been eating brown rice and oil free home made rye bread....salads with sea salt and vinegar dressing NO OIL OF COURSE! Some fresh carrot-apple juice. Will be cooking some beans and eating cooked vegetables too. Had B-12 pills the last two days

So far I'm very excited and feel lifted from the meat and dairy dimension. I can feel the effects of no oils already. I can see myself eating a little fish and eggs way down the line but intend to be McDougall style vegan for three months to clear up my gout.

I know my liver/gall bladder are not so strong so for me the whole idea of no vegetable oils clicks. Thanks Dr. McDougall!

BTW the most healthful bean is the chickpea and I'll explain why some day. I am a bean and split pea expert as far as cooking. Here's some fun with split peas----> Add some frozen peas in the last 5 minutes. Gives it a garden fresh vibe

Gaffer guy

Way to go! I'm on day 4 of 100% oil-free, and loving it so far. We can do the next three months together. (The way I'm looking at it is as an experiment to see if 100% compliance will cure some ailments of mine that being mostly-vegan didn't touch.)

OK
Three months we will try...The zero oil part is doable. Vegan is harder
My mind is much quicker without that veg oil grease. That veg oil was irritating my system. And I love some good salad with oil dressing or a pot of chickpeas soup with some high quality veg oil skimming the surface. Some "health food" yeast makes chickpea soup taste meatier. Chickpeas are near the top of the bean list for protein. Soy is higher but presents problems

Everyone in the restaurant business knows that the simplest way to juice up a bland dish is salt and oil. But we're going oil free!

G guy

Sounds good! I really do find that I miss the oil less as time goes by, because (I think) I get accustomed to the pure taste of the foods instead of the oily taste/texture.

And why your tastes change with time is found in Doug Lisle's presentation here.
http://vsh.voip-info.org/lisle.html

Gaffer,
With gout, you may want to stay away from fish and eggs in the future because, my understanding from Dr. McD is that animal protein is a strong trigger for gout. My mother has had some painful episodes of this arthritis so I've read up on it a little bit. High protein in general is bad for gout.

Gout can be very very flaky. I don't have acute gout. Just low level foot pains. The severity does not always correspond to what one has eaten in the last seven days.

My own take is the liver/gall bladder have a lot to do with all types of arthritis and gout too. Eliminate all fats is what I need for a long while. Maybe not forever. Maybe cod liver oil or flax seed oil in the future but consumed apart from meals. on an empty stomach. But I'm going to avoid all cuisine that involves grease and vegetable oil. Including vegetarian cuisines that use oil. No oil on salads either. This must make day six for me on McDougall and I feel better. I feel the positive effects of zero grease.... Gout is lessening but I have other reasons for going McDougall

I describe my experiences with -itis symptoms here: http://www.anti-itisdiet.blogspot.com/

My suggestions, based only on my own, layman's experience are:
- If you experiment, do so with 100% compliance for at least 3 months.
- Always keep in mind that you don't need to eat beans, peas, or grains for protein. (They are all very acid-producing.) You can get plenty of protein just from potatoes, for example.
- If withdrawing a type of food diminishes symptoms, don't count on being able to return to the food someday. Prepare yourself for giving it up for the remainder of your life.

I definitely agree that three months of strict compliance is the way to go. Oil and fat free is working great for me now. My system needs a long abstinence from it. I do know the optimum way to consume beneficial oils such as fish and cod liver and flax and it is not at meal time. But consumed therapeutically on an empty stomach. I never buy fish oil capsules. Blend it with some fresh carrot-apple juice and drink on empty stomach

I don't believe potatoes are that nutritious, The organic ones are too expensive. Organic grains are cheaper and have supported civilizations. Potatoes have a skimpy track record on this. Irish took up potatoes only after crop failures of grains

Not acid forming for someone who is healthy and gets some exercise, especially outdoor exercise and sunlight--- And eats fresh salads to balance that grain& bean acid if it even is there. Cooked vegetables too

I'll bet sunlight is alkalinizing

All over the world grains and beans are staples for poorer people and used to be staple foods all over the world. Exceptions would be tribal societies and hunter gatherer societies. But as far as China, Korea, Japan, India, SE Asia, Persia, Middle East, Europe, Russia--- These people had grain and beans as center of their diet

The problem is refining grains and making white rice and white bread. This is stupid and a curse

Why do you believe that? Have you studied the following article from the McDougall Newsletter?
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/apr/dairy.htm
Note especially the first table listing proteins and then the section subtitled "Potatoes Alone Will Suffice."

Except for Vitamin B12, what nutrients do you think are missing from a diet of potatoes, vegetables, and fruit?

Potatoes are cheap. I buy 10 lbs bags for $1.60 per bag, not organic; or 5 lbs bags organic for $2.50 per bag. Even the organic is cheap. But you are right that other starches, such as grains, are less expensive.

What proof do you have for this? I get lots of exercise in the sunshine and I eat lots of vegetables. The problem for me, with leaky-gut, is not "balance" but the mere presence of the amino acids. The PRAL listing confirms my experiences.


What is your reason for holding this idea?

I did read your blog and it's great that this diet is clearing up problems. You are on the dietary course that is best for you. Grains and beans are hard on your system, acidic, then you go outside that realm

I like you comment about steak houses. We have a Golden Corral here. It
is more buffet than steak and they always have baked potato, steamed cauliflower and broccoli. Have salad fixings. I have brought my own oil free dressing there----

It's ironic that buffets and steak houses are a lot more fun for us than Chinese and other ethnic cuisine where vegetable oil is liberally used. These buffet oriented places are where we can eat with family and friends who are not interested in McDougall

BTW --am very skeptical about Muslim claims to have preserved Aristotle for us.

Zero proof except my own personal feelings and experience sunning at the beach. Which I admit are not scientific

Sunlight and acid-alkaline--->>>

5. Live in the light of the day – we need sunlight.*

*According to Kris A. Pletschke in his book The Raw Conscious Evolution:

“Sunlight effects the levels of acid within the body as well. An alkaline chemistry is enhanced by the presence of full spectrum sunlight. The opposite is true in the absence of sunlight. Darkness creates acid build-up within bodily tissues. The effects compromise the immune system, skin vitality, vitamin D production, and more.”
http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.ht ... 5&posts=59

-------->>>>Not scientific but more to think about<<<<<----------

Leaky gut is something I know little about but.......to be continued.....

Gaffer, thanks for the link to Diane H's comments. Some of her comments match my experience and some contradict it. (Tea is alkalinizing not acidifying, as she claims.)

Further, some of her comments seem to contradict the Potential Renal Acid Load list I have worked from with 100% success. She cites no specific scientific source for her comments, unless her reference to the book is meant to serve that function.

I will try to find a copy of the book she recommended. If it is backed with seemingly reliable scientific sources, I will examine it further. Thank you.