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There seem to be quite alot of people here who were previously raw vegan. Why have you switched to McDougall? What are the differences you've noticed between the two?

Pros (vs. McDougall):
-much lighter feeling
-easier to eat without cooking, ever
-could eat lots more food
-no bloating, feeling overfull, or etc.
-never tired after eating
-felt much happier on a regular basis, because so much lighter
-way more energy compared to McDougall's diet
-had to sleep MUCH MUCH less--very good benefit, compared to McDougall
-easier to breathe, much better sense of smell

Cons (vs. McDougall):
-higher liver enzymes--very bad for me
-more expensive
-unstable moods sometimes
-0 feelings of satisfaction after eating
-felt hazy or "off" more than with McDougall diets
-had to drink much more water--we're talking about 8-9L
-chest pain/tightening following a meal

So, anyway, I realized I may be having some sort of blood sugar or other issues, and converted back to McDougall, from which I had begun in the first place. The low fat raw vegan diet was phenomenal for me in terms of energy, motivation, and etc., but the symptoms worried me. I am still a bit unpleased with the bloating and general lagging feelings of a cooked low fat vegan diet, but my liver enzymes will most likely be decreasing (they were very low previously on McDougall), and I'm hoping my tolerance to grains or other foods might return at some points in my life?

My low fat raw vegan diet was for about 12-14 months, but I've only been on the McDougall diet post-low fat raw vegan for a few months or so, now...so, we'll see.

What is bad about them, and what are liver enzymes? Why would raw veganism cause that?

Which diet made you lose the most weight?

Elevated liver enzymes are bad, but see: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/elevat ... ION=causes

It's also not a great thing to have so much fructose in my diet, because it can contribute to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease...with elevated liver enzymes.

You will lose the most weight with the lowest calorie density foods. This chart should help, so as long as you maintain the same calorie density, I don't see why you won't have the same weight loss. But it's different for different people--some people eat less when they eat starches and more when they eat fruit, because they feel more satiety with starches!

i was 30bad and just plain couldnt stick to it. bailed out and went vegan as much as poss and am just getting started on mcdougall now. seems a lot more sustainable when you have 2 toddlers, university, a job and a big social life

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to do McDougall. I can't stick to raw veganism, and potatoes are much cheaper than bucketloads of fresh fruit! I'm really interested in the history of gulags, so to make this diet fun for me, I'm going to pretend that I'm an inmate in a gulag and the only food we get is potatoes and veggies.

Hey UKGirl! I am from 30bad too!!!! I still go on there.. even if they don't want me Naaa I haven't gotten any heat so far... I told them I am eating cooked now, and they were kind. Even Durianrider and Free say if you must eat cooked to get the carbs in, do it! Just stay lowfat, so its kinda similar, I think.... And honestly my cron~o~meter looks more 801010 then when I was eating raw!!! I love eating raw, and a lot of my foods are still raw, aside from taters and soups... I think 'whole~food~carbs' are key!!!!
I felt amazing when I first did lfrv, but after a few months I started binging. Not sure why no amount of fruit satisfied me... I did lose in the beginning but I think cuz I was not eating enough cals??? And my exercise was sooo minimal by the end....Just stuffed myself and didn't wanna move anymore.
So I was finally introduced to this way~o~eating. Ummmm, I feel amazing!!! And I lost weight!!! I am eating all I want, and I am soooo satisfied!!! Not only the bloating water retentive feeling but I believe excess fat too!!! Still have a slight tummy but I have only been eating this way for a few months.. So lets see what a few more months do!
I said this before, but I'll say it again, I think lots~o~fruits (30bad) are for the extreme exercisers.... and this lovely way~o~eating of starches are perfect for wanting to be lean without hours of exercise... I am happy, I think this is easier. I know...what a lazy person I am right?!?!?lol

That's good to know, because I have very bad leg injuries. I've had operations to try and fix it, but I'm still in alot of pain. So, I can't do any "proper" exercise, just some weightlifting and I keep meaning to start yoga but yoga is boring! I can't do aerobics or running, or even walk very far. So it's good to know that on McDougall's diet people are losing weight without much exercise.

I lost all my weight and am keeping it off...I hate exercise, but when I started this program, I promised myself that I would do a minimum of 10 minutes of something every day. Of course, I love yoga--I find aerobics re-e-e-a-a-a-l-l-ly boring! But in any case, I do from 10 to 40 minutes a day of moderate exercise indoors. I alternate among the step, hula, and running parts of the Wii Fit, several beginner yoga DVDs, and two indoor walking programs on DVD. I have enough other exercise options on DVD and Netflix to give me variety, because otherwise I'd find any excuse not to do it--the dishes need to be washed, the furnace is making a funny noise, my shoulder hurts--you get the picture!

I am very happy with the results, although others might find my plan lacking, but I am achieving what I want out of the exercise--balance, flexibility and fitness--so I think it works well.

I'm having a problem, the Mcdougall food (cooked potatoes, etc) is making me very tired and giving me headaches. I don't get tired or have headaches when I eat just raw fruit and veg.

UkGirl,

Consider following the elimination diet to see what food trigger this reaction. Here's the link to the information:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_allergic.html

Hope that helps!

About a year and a half ago, I did a raw vegan diet that lasted a few months. Compared to McDougall, I did feel lighter, less sleep was needed, I never felt sluggish, my breath was a little better from all the fruit I think, and weight loss was extremely fast because of the Caloric density.

Some cons I experienced is that my muscles seemed to shrink as well and no matter how much resestance training I did, they would never grow. Eating raw is also more expensive and takes up a lot of room in the refrigerator. I went back to my old way of eating for the next year or so until I started the McDougall diet the beginning of this year.

On McDougall, weight loss was much more gradual. Since it's easier to eat enough calories on a start based plan, I find it easier to maintain or increase muscle mass. I don't always feel as light and need more sleep eating this way but still feel much better than when I used to eat the SAD. A lot of the recipes I like from McDougall have onions or garlic it seems so having fresh breath is more of a challenge.

Even though I've only tried the raw way once in my life, I feel like a starch based plan is more sustainable in the long run. I do find though when I eat the McDougall plan, I tend to forget about adding enough fruits and vegetable I think. Probably need to make more of an effort to incorporate those.

I did McDougall last year for a few months. The main improvements I had were excellent digestion- better than ever, some weight loss, improved thyroid function (from subclinical hypothyroid to normal), less muscle aches, no more oily skin, and energy was better. I then went back to high fat vegan for emotional reasons for a few months.

When I wanted to get healthy again, I opted to try 80/10/10rv. But I could never stick with it 100% for more than a couple weeks at a time. Still I kept trying. The 1000 calorie banana smoothies were delicious and gave me immediate energy but I'd get cranky and want more food a couple hours later. I also didn't like how much I thought about food- since doing it required such control for me, I had to think of it often in order to have the mental capacity to stick with it.

I really believed it was better than cooked, and now I see that it's because of the instant energy fruit gives. But to be honest, the energy was not sustained well for me. On McDougall, I don't get energy rushes after a meal but my energy and my mood are more consistent. Also, I'm satisfied!

Some folks I have watched came off 811 to McD but didn't go MWL version, in fact began adding store bought sauces (with high salt), juices, cereals, breads and soy milks and coffee/tea/wine/beer etc. When feeling bad then blamed cooked food. I cant imagine any negatives effects of eating purely MWL or Jeff's easy recipes/guidelines, but I suppose its possible. My own personal experience, my blood work was about the same 811 and MWL (TOTAL CHOL < 120, TGS low, LDL <50, HDL <40). I felt spacey on 811 but light and it felt like I could take off and go running at any point. Maybe that was from all the available energy! I feel more constant on McD and satiated. I look forward to meals more. Sometimes I couldn't stand sitting down to a pile of fruit. I think the interesting adds to McD for me was when I upped the greens and added beans, seems like athletic recovery feels more like I did on 811 and when I added in beans I swear I feel stronger physically.

Yes, Mober, I went to 811 partially because I was doing the regular McDougall & it wasn't 100% giving me the health I desired. I wish I had just gone to MWL at that point & saved myself some time. I'm doing much better now eating MWL & I am grateful & relieved to finally find what works best for me.

I've also noticed that some people conclude that the reason 811 didn't work for them is because it's low fat & vegan. So they add in animal foods as their way of seeking the health that eludes them on 811. They report feeling better because they added in eggs or meat. I think that raw sometimes turns people off to grains & beans & they are quicker to think meat is what's missing because obviously something important is missing from the 811rv diet (for the majority of people who try it). It took me some time to be ready to trust other foods again, because reading about raw, you read negative things about every other kind of food.