Bad Breath and Garlic/Onions

prairiedream · **Joined:** Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:38 pm **Posts:** 417

I've just finished the first chapter in Dr. McDougall's Digestive Tune-Up about bad breath. So far I like the book, it's very clearly written and makes me want to continue reading.

There's one thing about this chapter that is really confusing me, though. I thought that garlic and onions were *good* for you and didn't need to be limited if you didn't care about your breath smelling bad, but from what this chapter outlines, it sounds like garlic and onions have almost as much sulfur as meat and eggs and should be avoided!

This is extremely discouraging to me because those are two of my favorite foods/flavorings. I put garlic and onion powder on my popcorn every day, and eat some sliced onion in my salads. I know they make my breath smell bad, but I don't really care about that so much. I *do* care if it's harmful to my health to be eating these things on a daily basis. Anyone have any thoughts?

DianeR · **Joined:** Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:29 am **Posts:** 1279

I haven't read the new book yet, but I doubt that Dr. McDougall is changing his position on the healthiness of onion and garlic. If he did so, he would do so clearly and would certainly mention it in his newsletters.

According to the reading I've done, onion and garlic are both good for you. For instance, on pages 183-184 of the Healthy Heart book, Dr. McDougall discusses the heart benefits of garlic.

I believe that it isn't the sulfur per se that is bad, but particular sulfur-containing compounds. Meat and dairy contain different ones than onions and garlic. The following two newsletter articles discuss how it is the sulfur-containing amino acids from animal protein that are problematic:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2003nl/ ... htdiet.htm
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/ ... ereggs.htm

I know I've read a more in-depth explanation of all this, but I can't seem to find it right now

Mrs. Doodlepunk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 pm **Posts:** 3557

If garlic and onions are harmful, then it's all over for our family! We're doomed!! :eek:

I often consider it a typo when I read a recipe and see there is no garlic on the list of ingredients and put it in anyhow!

I suspect there is something more to this. I just read the book last week, and when I saw your post re-read the chapter on bad breath. It does sound as though the foods that contain sulfur are bad - since he says that even small amounts of it are harmful. I guess I missed that, I wonder how much else I missed? I'll have to read it over again soon.

I hope Dr. McDougall sees this and helps us out.

AnnaS · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:16 pm

I find that most cookbooks do have severe typo problems (editing has gone downhill in recent decades!) For example, it will say "1 clove garlic" when clearly 4 or 5 are needed. And also "1 small onion" when 5 or 6 will give a better result, regardless of their size.

We are big allium fans here.

Mrs. Doodlepunk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 pm **Posts:** 3557

AnnaS wrote:

I find that most cookbooks do have severe typo problems (editing has gone downhill in recent decades!) For example, it will say "1 clove garlic" when clearly 4 or 5 are needed. And also "1 small onion" when 5 or 6 will give a better result, regardless of their size.

We are big allium fans here.

You think like I do. :-D

stevek · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:39 am

Before I went plant based I had a bad breath problem as well as gum swelling, gum bleeding and some bone loss. A gum scraping procedure from my dentist offered some temporary relief but did not stop the gum tenderness and bleeding. I checked the Internet and found a Dr. Katz (Therabreath) who offers a range of dental products(some sold at Walgreen, Kroger, etc) which really helped my bad breath and completely healed my gums. I have been using these products for about 18 months now and my dentist can't believe how well my gums have healed. I think he's embarrassed that I found this without his help. I have had great success with the periodontal therapy tooth gel and rinse. I noticed when I eliminated meat my breath improved further. I use onions to season many foods and I find that they don't affect my breath the way they used to. At least my wife and kids haven't complained recently! If this is an issue for you check it out for yourself.

http://www.therabreath.com/a/3151/iwfb.asp

S B · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:33 pm

I could be wrong, but the way I see it is.....

Not all of the sulfur we consume ends up in our bloodstream. I have a feeling that most of it stays in our digestive tract until it is "expelled". However, amino acids from protein DO end up in our bloodstream and the sulfur containing amino acids are what acidify our blood.

So, I think Dr. McDougall means it is sulfur containing amino acids and NOT the sulfur in garlic and onions that we have to watch out for.

Of course, garlic and onions can give us bad breath -- but that alone never hurt anyone!

Grateful · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:22 pm

I first had to live a life without cigarettes, then seafood, then coffee, then lower my white flour intake and NOW I have to live without garlic! Heavens! I use it in everything. Even crush it on rice cakes....LOL :cry:

I hope Dr. McDougall clears this matter up.

Mrs. Doodlepunk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 pm **Posts:** 3557

Has anyone emailed Dr. McDougall yet about this?

DianeR · **Joined:** Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:29 am **Posts:** 1279

My copy of Dr. McDougall's new book arrived yesterday. The way I read it, the idea of avoiding onion and garlic is just to deal with a bad breath problem. Nothing there indicates that the two aren't healthy.

Indeed, look at the McDougall recipes in current newsletters. Many contain either or even both ingredients.

prairiedream · **Joined:** Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:38 pm **Posts:** 417

I know, I thought it was weird too, but the book does say that garlic and onions contain "generous amounts of sulfur."

So I did a little sleuthing. I looked up a few common items in the USDA database and here's the methionine and cysteine components of 100gms of each food:

Raw Garlic: M - .076 C - .065
Onion: M - .002 C - .004
Beef: M - .292 C - .668
Egg: M - .380 C - .272

Methionine and cysteine are the amino acids that contain sulfur. So, although garlic and onion might be high in sulfur *for vegetables*, even eating 100gms of them gives you vastly less sulfur than eating animal products. And let's face it, much as a I love garlic, I don't think I eat 100 gms of it a day

Mrs. Doodlepunk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 pm **Posts:** 3557

Thank you! That is just what I suspected, and I looked for data online but didn't have time to do a thorough search.

So, when a person sits down to eat a steak and egg breakfast, they are getting hundreds of times the sulfur I get when I eat a meal with one clove of garlic and a whole onion per serving.

Now I'm off to cook up some egg rolls with lots of onions and garlic! :-D

S B · **Posted:** Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:27 pm

Is ALL of the sulfur in garlic ONLY in its amino acids? Does it contain some "free" sulfur, too? I ask this because garlic is SO STRONG!

Where we live, a lot of wells give sulfur water -- and many people DRINK this water because they say it is healthy! Of course the sulfur in this water is NOT in amino acids -- the water simply contains a little sulfur.

When I asked about sulfur water (on the old board) I was told it was not harmful to drink. So, I am assuming that none or almost none of "free" sulfur we consume does not get into our blood stream -- like amino acids.

Am I right to assume this???

Thanks!

DianeR · **Joined:** Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:29 am **Posts:** 1279

I tried doing a little googling on this subject. You might try the same. I found no evidence that onions contain "free" sulfur. Rather they contain a variety of different sulfur compounds, none of which appear to be dangerous. Actually if anything they are healthy. I didn't find a "perfect" site answering your specific question, but maybe you can if you pursue the matter in more depth. (It is your question, not mine

)

http://healthinfo.cedars-sinai.edu/libr ... hn-3657001
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... _n13681176
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:VuR ... clnk&cd=44
http://www.zoo.utoronto.ca/able/volumes ... randle.htm

S B · **Posted:** Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:54 pm

I apologize for using the term "free sulfur" incorrectly. I SHOULD HAVE ASKED, "Does garlic contain any sulfur or sulfur compounds NOT in the its amino acids?" -- NOT simply just any sulfur that is "NOT combined" with anything else. (I am NOT a scientist -- if you couldn't tell!

)

Thank you for all of that searching! You did not need to go that far for JUST ME! However, I am sure it will help some others, too!

Anyway, from your post, it appears that as long as the sulfur in a food is NOT in its amino acids then it is most likely NOT harmful the the body (in most cases).

Thanks, again!

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