If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging healthily?

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, John McDougall, carolve, Heather McDougall

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby eXtremE » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:23 am

I see women doing them all the time (and dips which are just upright full body pushups) when I go into my fitness center. Many young, slender girls can bench press and squat more than me and they don't even look that muscular either...just really toned.

They do have the advantage of youth. They may be able to beat me now but not when I was 25. :D
On 7/8/2013, I decided to change my diet to a "mostly" WFPB diet. I have always been somewhat lean and muscular due to being a lifelong exerciser. Change in diet due to feeling crummy all the time despite a healthy outward appearance. Image
User avatar
eXtremE
 
Posts: 3525
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:05 am

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby Joseph65 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:42 am

The pushup is primarily a pec and tri exercise. I don't believe most people as they age need much in the way of strength in those two area....unless you want an exercise to keep the boobs firm. The focus should be on free-body squats. I'm visiting another retired friend in a place call The Villages in central Florida and since this is a retirement community there are plenty of us seniors around. The major problems I see is the inability to squat down and stand up as a result you see a lot of men and women bending at the waist and putting tremendous stress on their lower backs. What's worse is the fall rate around here. They lack the strength to caught themselves if they stumble. The resultant falls equal serious injury like hip fractures, broken wrists, arms and occasionally skulls from trying to caught themselves (a face plant is tough on the brain and facial beauty). At the gym I see guys using the pec deck machine, bicep/tri exercise instead of bench press and the women use the two machines to develop inner and other leg strength but there isn't anybody doing quad and hamstring work. As folks age they would be better served with free squats in addition to walking. Walking by itself wouldn't help build the strength required to hold your body weight up without locking your knees. The 2nd focus should be on flexibility and only then get to hand strength, back and chest. Besides, leg strength allows you to use the muscles to absorb the shock of walking and standing instead of depending on locked hip and knees joints. It will save you a hip and knee replacement in the future.
Joseph65
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:25 am

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby dynodan62 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:00 am

olindaspider wrote:Excellent article here A Golf Great Works to Stay Fit, Well Over 50 on Gary Player (the golfer) and his routine for staying fit at 75.


Geez, 1000 sit-ups every day with a 100# weight on his chest, and at age 75?!! Where the hell is this guy from, the planet Krypton?
I have to wonder, might the same life-shortening effect pointed out in the recent thread re: excessive aerobic exercise also apply to fanatical strength training (he also does 1000 push-ups every day)?

I also noticed that I could no longer do standard push-ups (just looking like you might be up to no good usually instigated the order to perform many back in my military days), and being in my mid 60s too, I started doing the knee type regularly in the hopes of building up the standard form eventually to regain some level of youthful fitness. But, having suffered a rotator cuff tear over the years that was never surgically corrected, push-ups of any type always brings on chronic shoulder/arm pain. Looks like any chance of a Gary Player-type senior physique is now out of the question for me.
dynodan62
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 10:07 pm
Location: Northwest Indiana

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby RebusCannebus » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:29 am

" After forty years of age, muscle loss proceeds at a rate of 0.5 - 2% per year or about 8% per decade on average. This rate accelerates noticeably after age 60 and is highest in physically inactive persons along with a parallel decline in dynamic, static, and isokinetic muscle strength. The result of such age-related LBM loss is a decline in function such that up to 65% of older men and women report that they are unable to lift ten pounds with their arms. From age 60 and for each decade thereafter, the rate of muscle loss doubles."
http://www.dovepress.com/dove-press-blog-2-blog-post

At 58, I'm really starting to feel the decline in strength that you describe, waingapu. So I certainly take your point, which has served at least to put strength training on my radar. OTOH, for my particular health issues, I need to focus on MWL and cardio exercise.
Peter
User avatar
RebusCannebus
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:08 am
Location: Northern California

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby MikeInFL » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:40 am

nayasmom wrote:I'm with Kate. I do patient transfer (from any position to any position), lift my dog into and out of the car, move furniture, and so on. The mark of my strength and agility isn't in the ability to do push-ups. There is no activity that utilizes the body mechanics of a push-up, so to me the measure of health and physical fitness has nothing to do with whether or not I can perform a push-up.
Why go there?
Again, it's essentially a beat-up tool, and as such invalid.
Robyn


I agree. We didn't evolve to do push ups. We did evolve to walk. And we walked a lot. How far you can walk without getting out of breath and needing to rest IS I think the best measure of overall health. Not running. Walking.
MikeInFL
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby viv » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:12 am

In his early golf days, Mr. Player says most pros, himself included, didn't think twice about their diet. For the last six years, Mr. Player has followed a mostly vegetarian diet. He says he has much more energy since he's cut out meat.

Maybe Gary' Player's vegetarian diet is a factor in his amazing level of fitness for his age!

I look forward to a long life of mental and physical fitness. I exercise, lift weights and stay flexible. Just over a year ago I could hardly walk! The McDougall diet got rid of the joint inflammation and as I began losing weight, I was able to workout. Oh yes, it's McDougalling for me, for life!
5'8", Started March 2013
Starting weight: 217
Current weight: 157
60lbs gone--for good!
User avatar
viv
 
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby bridgetohealth » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:52 am

Count me among the women who never really learned to do a pushup. After saying in a different thread I couldn't even do knee pushups, I was happy to discover I could do at least 20 after my normal exercise routing, and then one full one. However, I think there is too much technique involved in push-ups for them to be used as a barometer of fitness. Also, like Shelle-belle mentioned, flexibility and balance are key factors in "aging gracefully" as well. Balance may be number one -- and that comes from core strength, not from pecs or triceps.

I think that Waingapu's general idea of thinking about our muscle strength and quality of life as we age is important. But I think we should think about what we will need or want to do regularly (or in an emergency) as we age, and make sure we're keeping our muscle strength for that. I see older people struggling to get in and out of a chair, so squats will keep our leg muscles in shape for that. We need to go grocery shopping so I certainly hope I'll always be able to lift and carry a ten pound grocery bag, and we can do biceps and triceps exercises for that. We'll need to put groceries away on a high shelf so we'll need shoulder strength and flexibility (can keep that up with shoulder presses with a LIGHT dumbbell -- shoulders aren't really meant to be weight-bearing muscles and now's not the time to start) We'll need to get down onto and up off from the floor, so we need balance (core strength), quads, and perhaps arms (biceps and/or triceps depending on if we push or pull ourselves up). Since many of us lived some or many years overweight we may be facing knee and/or hip replacement surgery. We'll need to use our upper body to pull and push ourselves during recovery. We'll need to walk without falling even if we're on uneven sidewalks, so we need leg and core strength. I'm frankly not sure what we'll need our chest for (other than pushing ourselves up from face down on ground, but usually we can turn ourselves over and do it differently), but that's one of the six major muscle groups and we should exercise that too. Basically, we should be exercising all six of the major muscle groups at least twice per week. Push-ups are only chest and arms (and they leave out the biceps). Abnominals are involved, but I wouldn't call it an abdominal exercise.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the "longevity test" we talked about in another thread of getting up and down off the floor without touching your hands on floor does not involve the upper body: it involves legs, flexibility and balance. Yes, like I said I want to be able to carry a ten-pound grocery bag, but getting off the floor if I fall and walking and preferably not falling to begin with are more important for quality of life and to prevent injury.

Maybe someone can start a thread for the six major muscle groups club. Or the aging gracefully club. Etc.
bridgetohealth
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby waingapu » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:44 pm

Look I'm far from saying that doing push ups is the only exercise needed. Far from it, I spend far more time cycling and hiking as well as doing other exercises for strength.

But having said that I find many of the comments amazing.. a few samples

"The pushup is primarily a pec and tri exercise. I don't believe most people as they age need much in the way of strength in those two area"

"I agree. We didn't evolve to do push ups. We did evolve to walk."

"Push-ups are only chest and arms (and they leave out the biceps)"

"I can't even do one push-up, and I'm aging healthily. I'm not obsessing over what I can or can't do, "

"The mark of my strength and agility isn't in the ability to do push-ups. There is no activity that utilizes the body mechanics of a push-up, so to me the measure of health and physical fitness has nothing to do with whether or not I can perform a push-up. "

"It has been my experience that many women simply can not do a pushup. I have never been able to do one.'
'I am active. I am not going to worry about not being able to do a pushup."

Wow... perhaps I was wrong and there isn't much need for push-ups, which really only exercises a tiny area of the body and are of little use for aging Americans, especially women. After all, most women never really could do push ups anyway. (yes, I'm being a little sarcastic)

Reminds me a little of all those articles about the Mediterranean Diet being more than adequate for the prevention of heart disease and strokes as we age. Why go beyond that?

Anyway, if you want to see how you compare to others your age, check out a few calculators

http://www.health-calc.com/exercise/push-up-test
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/PushUps.html


NYTimes article http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/healt ... 1well.html
(takes issue with push-ups being defined as a narrowly focused exercise)

Ellen and Michelle Obama (both middle aged women) doing push ups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBdCXUc6kU0

Times have changed... Title 9.... women in almost all sports, in almost all jobs including firefighters and police officers.

And finally, women outliving men, ending up living on their own most of the time, needing to do the basics, including getting themselves up off the floor often when alone.
I think having zero push ups as a standard is being delusional, every bit as much as having 30% of calories as fat is living in false sense of dietary safety.

But that's what a forum is for, airing different opinions and perspectives, from which we all learn.
Last edited by waingapu on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
waingapu
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:14 pm

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby dteresa » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:57 pm

Wait a minute. Push ups to keep the boobs firm? Why didn't somebody tell me this years ago? Now it's too late and things have gone so far that sturdy underwear won't do it and I will soon require some sort of external pulley system. Where is good advice when you need it?

didi
dteresa
 
Posts: 3735
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:22 am

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby eXtremE » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:09 pm

LMAO @ didi :D
On 7/8/2013, I decided to change my diet to a "mostly" WFPB diet. I have always been somewhat lean and muscular due to being a lifelong exerciser. Change in diet due to feeling crummy all the time despite a healthy outward appearance. Image
User avatar
eXtremE
 
Posts: 3525
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:05 am

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby figlover » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:35 pm

Ha Ha Didi, actually the action of crossing both elbows in front to chest will work the supportive structural muscle for the breasts. If you get one of those Thigh Master devices, besides working those adorable inner thigh muscles, you can also use it between both elbows raised up to your pectoral area and go at it there. Really works, course I'm not a woman, but there was an older celebrity years ago whose form in that area was quite impressive and was touting the same exercise motion I just described as the determining factor.

I'm in agreement about lower body work to be somewhat more important than upper. Squats with some hand weights of various size and mixing up the angles of motion are good at mimicking practical life situations where that kind of strength comes in handy. Doesn't take much to great improvement, and a little work at it everyday will develop a routine in life that will serve us well.

Push-up smushups.
I forum here cause I have no where else to go.
User avatar
figlover
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Woodland Hills, CA

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby Golden Ghost » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:43 pm

waingapu wrote:Look I'm far from saying that doing push ups is the only exercise needed. Far from it, I spend far more time cycling and hiking as well as doing other exercises for strength.

But having said that I find many of the comments amazing.. a few samples

"The pushup is primarily a pec and tri exercise. I don't believe most people as they age need much in the way of strength in those two area"

"I agree. We didn't evolve to do push ups. We did evolve to walk."

"Push-ups are only chest and arms (and they leave out the biceps)"

"I can't even do one push-up, and I'm aging healthily. I'm not obsessing over what I can or can't do, "

"The mark of my strength and agility isn't in the ability to do push-ups. There is no activity that utilizes the body mechanics of a push-up, so to me the measure of health and physical fitness has nothing to do with whether or not I can perform a push-up. "

"It has been my experience that many women simply can not do a pushup. I have never been able to do one.'
'I am active. I am not going to worry about not being able to do a pushup."

Wow... perhaps I was wrong and there isn't much need for push-ups, which really only exercises a tiny area of the body and are of little use for aging Americans, especially women. After all, most women never really could do push ups anyway. (yes, I'm being a little sarcastic)

Reminds me a little of all those articles about the Mediterranean Diet being more than adequate for the prevention of heart disease and strokes as we age. Why go beyond that?

Anyway, if you want to see how you compare to others your age, check out a few calculators

http://www.health-calc.com/exercise/push-up-test
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/PushUps.html


NYTimes article http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/healt ... 1well.html
(takes issue with push-ups being defined as a narrowly focused exercise)

Ellen and Michelle Obama (both middle aged women) doing push ups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBdCXUc6kU0

Times have changed... Title 9.... women in almost all sports, in almost all jobs including firefighters and police officers.

And finally, women outliving men, ending up living on their own most of the time, needing to do the basics, including getting themselves up off the floor often when alone.
I think having zero push ups as a standard is being delusional, every bit as much as having 30% of calories as fat is living in false sense of dietary safety.

But that's what a forum is for, airing different opinions and perspectives, from which we all learn.



I’m with you but I got tired of beating my head against the wall so I stopped posting about muscle fitness. I also am amazed at some of the comments but I’m not surprised. “Most” people here think if they are heat attack proof then they will be ok in their old age. Man are they in for it.
The push up is a great measure of upper body strength. The reason most people dis it is because they can’t do it. Jim thinks most are here for there health, and they are, but health is not fitness. Ideal body weight, no heart disease or cancer is not health. I see people every day who are “healthy” and can’t do much.
My neighbor is seventy and “healthy”, ideal body weight but can’t ride a bike around the block, can’t ski, can’t run, can’t do much but work in the garden. What will he be like at eighty? Not bad compared to the average person but that’s not what I want.
You have to have an aerobic, resistance training, flexibility, and balance training routine to be totally healthy in you golden years. Keep up the push ups and keep working on your leg strength and balance as I believe that’s more important.
The post on the marathon runners is a great example of this. I understand that aerobic exercise can’t make up for bad diet but how many people use this for an excuse not to do aerobics? As people here say “people love to here good thins about their bad habits” I think a lot of people here love to here bad things about habits. That way they have an excuse not to do the things they should be doing.
Last edited by Golden Ghost on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Golden Ghost
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:59 pm

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby EvanG » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:51 pm

I'd rather be able to do 100 body-weight squats or walk 10 or 20 miles without issue than do 10 push-ups. Your 'call to arms' for exercise makes sense, but I don't really get the focus on push-ups. Do you also at least do exercises to balance out the push-ups? A lot of people just do bench presses or push-ups and ignore their backs.
-----
Started in June 2012 at 39
Lost 25 lbs. Feel great.
EvanG
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:15 am

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby waingapu » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:28 pm

EvanG wrote:I'd rather be able to do 100 body-weight squats or walk 10 or 20 miles without issue than do 10 push-ups. Your 'call to arms' for exercise makes sense, but I don't really get the focus on push-ups. Do you also at least do exercises to balance out the push-ups? A lot of people just do bench presses or push-ups and ignore their backs.


Goodness, simply doing 10 push ups is not on the same planet with doing 100 squats or walking 10 or 20 miles.
By all means, do some squats, and walk walk walk, plus a range of other exercise. Push ups are not meant to be to the exclusion of other such exercises.

All I'm saying is that the strength to do a quick 10 push ups is hardly some significant muscle requirement. It should become natural for most of us as part...just part....of a overall exercise program that doesn't neglect the upper body and core. Despite what some have said, the muscles required to do a push up, upper body and core, do in fact play a role in the ability of seniors go get up off the floor and to mitigate a fall that might have put them there.

Look at that video of Michelle Obama and Ellen. Obama is 48 and Ellen is 54 (now 56). It took them less than 35 seconds to do 25 push ups
I'm not even suggesting one needs to do that many, and not even on one's toes.
Perhaps every other day, as you pass the living room, just briefly get down on the floor and do 10 push-ups.... either full ones, or on your knees.

The total time to do such, every other day, is less than 30 seconds. Just that brief set of even 10 would keep those muscles from deteriorating. Less than 30 seconds and not even every day. Yet there seems to be some resistance to such a idea. As though, doing push ups, precludes one from doing other exercises.
I'm only saying that push ups are one marker for fitness. A normally healthy person should continue to be able to do some as they age.
There must be some reason why Michelle and Ellen do them. You don't have go go crazy like Gary Player, most of us not being professional athletes.
waingapu
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:14 pm

Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby eXtremE » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:13 pm

The main reason I don't do push-ups regularly is that I like doing other exercises with dumbells and barbells and machines that target the same muscle groups. I still do the tricep dips during those times when I can make it to the fitness center. :D

I often see many seniors doing cardio at the fitness center I go to but after they step off the treadmill or elliptical, that is the end of their workout. They are neglecting a very critical component IMO by avoiding the strength training but JMHO!
On 7/8/2013, I decided to change my diet to a "mostly" WFPB diet. I have always been somewhat lean and muscular due to being a lifelong exerciser. Change in diet due to feeling crummy all the time despite a healthy outward appearance. Image
User avatar
eXtremE
 
Posts: 3525
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:05 am

PreviousNext

Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests



Welcome!

Sign up to receive our regular articles, recipes, and news about upcoming events.