If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging healthily?

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby sharonbikes » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:10 pm

I am a strong believer in the need to stay active and physically strong. But, I don't think you have to do push ups to age healthily. I, like many women who have posted, was never able to do a pushup - not because I lacked the strength, but because I didn't know how. It was not until I found the right trainer who was able to teach me how to do a push up could I ever do one - and I had tried, tried, tried. For me, it was a learned skill - not one I innately knew. It is not something I learned as a kid. To say you have to know how to do pushups to age healthily is just too arbitrary - it's like saying if you can't ride a bicycle then you are not aging well because obviously you have balance problems - but, not everyone learned how to ride a bike as a kid. Push ups are the same way - while they may be one way for some people to be confident in maintaining strength, they are not the only way. There are many other ways to maintain the necessary strength to age happy and healthily.

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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby HealthFreak » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:46 am

eXtremE wrote:Whenever I think about fitness, Jack Lalanne always comes to mind. He exercised right up until the day he died.


Dr McDougall did a great interview with Jack Lalanne. You can look it up on the archived podcasts from the 90s on the McDougall site. I remember in the interview Jack said exercise is King and diet is Queen. I think diet is 70% and exercise is 30% but either way you have to have them both.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby dinska » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:27 pm

f1jim wrote:You didn't get my point. I wasn't saying the topic should be relegated to the exercise forums. I was saying that those two forums were heavily used. Did you factor that into your summation of the poor physical health you tarnished the membership with?



You know, I'm insulted by this thread and I run 4 miles every other day, weight train for aesthetics, and work out with a medicine ball regularly as well as doing other body weight exercises. I find push ups boring. It wouldn't surprise me if, as 42 year old female I couldn't do two push ups.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby waingapu » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:13 pm

dinska wrote:You know, I'm insulted by this thread and I run 4 miles every other day, weight train for aesthetics, and work out with a medicine ball regularly as well as doing other body weight exercises. I find push ups boring. It wouldn't surprise me if, as 42 year old female I couldn't do two push ups.


Good to read that you are very fit with your various exercise routines. Every exercise is not for everyone.
Having said that many people seem to be interested in the subject of fitness and the dangers of sarcopenia as part of their healthy goals as they age.
Push-ups are but one marker for fitness. One that is easily understood by most people. Even Ellen and Michelle Obama used the push ups example to express the need for fitness on the Ellen TV show where women are the major part of the audience.
It is used by many agencies, military, police, fire, and such for their minimum entrance requirements as well as for measuring ongoing fitness levels.
Some use the full push ups while others allow knee push ups for female participants.

You would be a interesting example of how a person could be well conditioned without doing regular push ups.
You say you find push ups boring in the past, so now you don't include them in your fitness.
Clearly those same muscles can be strengthened with other routines.
I'm betting you could easily do more than two push-ups right now, especially allowing the inclusion of knee push ups, as mentioned in my original post.

The discussion of the need for more strength in aging has been good. Lack of strength in aging seniors 60+ is every bit as important as diet in their future health outcomes and ability to live independently. Many here are in that age group or approaching it soon.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby eXtremE » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:29 pm

HealthFreak wrote:
eXtremE wrote:Whenever I think about fitness, Jack Lalanne always comes to mind. He exercised right up until the day he died.


Dr McDougall did a great interview with Jack Lalanne. You can look it up on the archived podcasts from the 90s on the McDougall site. I remember in the interview Jack said exercise is King and diet is Queen. I think diet is 70% and exercise is 30% but either way you have to have them both.
Thanks, I have listened to a lot of the old podcasts but not the interview with Jack Lalanne. I saw it in iTunes but have not listened to it yet...maybe tonight. Even tho LaLanne did not eat a McD diet, his diet was healthy and served him well....after all, he lived until age 96. I use to also love watching his infomercials. I purchased my 1st juicer after watching a LaLanne infomercial but gave it away soon after I bought it bc I always thought juicing was too messy and took too much time to do and I hated cleaning the machine afterwards.

Speaking of the old podcasts>>>>
I esp. enjoyed listening to the one with Julian Whitaker. Whitaker is a fireball. You should listen to some of the ones he did with Randy Alvarez of the Wellness Hour. Julian Whitaker is a real hoot! :D
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby Joseph65 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:19 pm

I think we're missing the point on this one. Those that enjoy the challenge of numerous pushups should continue to what they're doing. Of course they'll pay for it in time with overuse injury of the shoulders. However to kid yourself that pushups are a marker of strength or health is another matter. Pushup beyond say three are an indicator of muscular endurance not strength. There just isn't a lot of practical reason for muscular endurance in being able to push yourself or a heavy object away a dozen times or more. The legs on the other hand are used or should be used regularly and building muscular endurance is essential for practical movement and therefore a real indicator of health. I do a full body heavy weight workout twice a weak but it certainly doesn't make me fitter than someone who doesn't work as heavy as I or does fewer reps and sets. I do the workout because it makes me feel good after and has little to do with practical strength. I can't remember the last time I practically needed to push a 225 pound object away from my body ten times for five sets. Call it vanity because at 65 I like the idea of being big both upper and lower body.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby Karen58 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:21 am

The previous poster mentioned the possibility of a repetitive injury from pushups. My daughter, a 4th degree blackbelt in Shaolin karate did 50 pushups every single morning for many years. After a couple of years, she injured her wrists from the pushups and had to transition to knuckle pushups. Be careful. Repetitive injury from pushups is real.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby Bob Loblob » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:37 am

JOJO1947 wrote:A great side benefit of pushups for us older ladies is a lessening of the 'goodbye wave flap' of the triceps. Another quick way to improve pushup ability is to start off on the floor on hands and toes, straight as a board. The lower down v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y until the chest is on the floor. Get up any way you can and lower down again. We are stronger on the eccentric part of an exercise than the concentric. That concept becomes clear when you think of a dumbbell curl. Grabbing a dumbbell with your hand hanging down at your side, then raising it (without moving your elbow) is the curl (concentric). Lowering the dumbbell to your side is the eccentric portion of the curl. Same muscle used and worked, but you can lower slowly a heavier weight that is impossible to curl up. My DIL used that technique to increase he pushup repetitions rather successfully. And I used it for biceps by lowering a 20# weight slowly, then using both hands to get the dumbbell back up. Now I can actually get out some 20# dumbbell curls!

There are so many different exercises to work the same muscle group. It's whatever rocks your boat so it's the most fun. I can't figure out the logic in making a blanket statement about healthy aging based on one exercise. :)


I've always known that to get the full benefit of strength training I should go slow on the negative. I think we all have a tendency to kind of throw the weights around instead of fully controlling them. I lifted last night with this in mind and it kicked my butt. Thanks for reminding me to emphasize the negative portion of weight training.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby eXtremE » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:45 am

I have had many RSIs from both weight training and running simply bc of not giving my body enough rest and recovery time between workouts. Many ppl love the stress (exercise) part but hate the rest and recovery part.

If you are going to do the P/U's, I would not do them daily and I would slowly build up to avoid injury.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby waingapu » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:38 am

eXtremE wrote:I have had many RSIs from both weight training and running simply bc of not giving my body enough rest and recovery time between workouts. Many ppl love the stress (exercise) part but hate the rest and recovery part.

If you are going to do the P/U's, I would not do them daily and I would slowly build up to avoid injury.


I think you have it exactly right. Don't do them daily and s-l-o-w-l-y build up. Listen to your body, if you feel a little twinge, take extra days off. Find the right rhythm that fits your body. Not every exercise is for every body. We each have weak areas. Try to get fit, work around any specific weak point your individual body may have.

I must say,this certainly has brought out a very defensive nature in so many people.
We have those who feel the need to express anger that anyone would dare suggest any amount of exercise as a standard that a 60+ individual might strive for. Here I thought 10 knee or regular push-ups was hardly being excessive as a possible idea.
But then we had people suggesting that women can't or shouldn't be able to do any. Possibly a carry over from the 50's when women weren't suppose to do any physical work. Today we have women doing almost everything.
Now we have others portraying doing 10 push ups as not really being about strength, but only a exercise of endurance.
Goodness, it takes less than 30 seconds to do 10 knee push ups... endurance? no strength benefit?

Wow, so much resistance to simple push ups.
As I and many others have posted in the push ups thread, no one seems to be doing daily push ups. I do them about twice a week, specifically so as to allow my 64 year old tendons to recover and heal from any possible strains.
Can't be responsible for some place that makes small girls do 50 push ups every single morning until they have injured wrists.

All forms of exercise can be done in a sensible manner, with a eye to one's age. They can all be done in a gradual build up.
Push ups can be done against a wall.... then against stairs or furniture, then on one's knees, and finally on one's toes.
Even then, you need not go all the way to the floor. You can go down to 3 or 4 inches off the floor.
I rarely ever touch my chest to the floor. Even the military testing push ups don't go to the floor.

So, lets just say push ups are a good exercise for some people. For those folks they can be one marker for health and strength.
Show me a 75 or 80 year old man or woman who can do 10 knee or full push ups and I expect they can also easily get up off the floor without assistance, and probably without the use of furniture.
However, doing such exercise during the 20 years prior to reaching age 80 is a key to retaining that ability.
And of course there are probably 10 other exercises that could be included to improve strength, flexibility, and balance, all of which go together to enable a person to age in a healthy independent manner.

I'd almost be afraid to mention some of the others out of fear they'd each be raked over the coals as being dangerous or overly demanding, or disrespectful of someone.
Really, I never thought mentioning push ups as a healthy marker for aging would get such responses.
Aiming for 10 push ups, knee or full, certainly doesn't seem like a extreme standard for folks who think nothing of aiming for a diet that has as a prime goal, eating 10% or less of their calories as fat.
Last edited by waingapu on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby geo » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:20 pm

Its interesting how exercise discussions can raise the ire of folks almost as much as diet talk...I guess we all have our "religion" sensitivities. None-the-less it did provide for an interesting discussion :)

But I think we all are also talking around the bigger picture here: What is fitness (...I know it when I see it...) and what does it mean to be physically fit. What are those standards? And how exactly does fitness fit into the bigger picture of overall health. There aren't any easy answers from what I've read. Fitness itself has many different definitions, even within the fitness industry. I'm not going to pretend to have any answers (but I do have lots of opinions based on personal experience :lol: ).

But there is one popular book I've read that does try to answer the question about what is fitness and how much of it do you really need. It was written way back in 1975 by Dr Leonard Morehouse: Total fitness in 30 mins a week

http://www.amazon.com/Total-Fitness-L-m ... YQB72A5QWK

Lots of reasearch has been done on how much fitness you really need, and some folks on this thread actually touched on that as a basis of fitness i.e., if you can do everything you need to do in your daily life without strain or significant exersion, then you are probably "fit" enough. That assumes of course that you don't limit yourself specifically because you no longer have that fitness level. Yeah I know sounds kind of like circular logic...(and yes I know I'm not explaining it well).

Anyways, Dr Leonard Morehouse was probably the preimenent Exercise Physiologist in the world back in the 50's/60's/70's. You've probably never heard of him but he was the Dr chosen by NASA to handle all the exercise requirements for the Apollo astronaut program as well as the Skylab space station. He designed all the exercise programs and machines used for those programs in space. So he definitely was on the cutting edge of exercise science and knew exactly what it would take to get fit and stay that way.

Despite the age of the book its a really great and easy intro to the idea of fitness and what it truly takes. And to be honest, I'm not sure we've advanced all that much in the last 50-60+ years in exercise science since that book was written. For instance, today "High Intensity Interval Training - HIIT" is all the rage, and people talk about Tabata as if he originated the idea, yet Dr Morehouse was already studying and using this form of exercise back in the 50's (there really isn't much new in the exercise world, just like in the nutrition world- everything we really needed to know we knew 50 years ago, everything else is just tweeks). Needless to say, the book is long out of print, but you can usually pick up a copy of it for a penny on Amazon.

Now don't scoff at the idea of being "fit" in 30 mins a week...this is not about athletically fit (thats a whole nother topic and should not be a part of a discussion of general health), this is about being fit, such that you are healthy and not suffering from the usual disabilities of aging.

And for those that want a more advanced treatment of the subject of fitness, Dr Morehouse wrote a follow-on book called "Maximum Performance". Its also long out of print but equally fascinating. And can be picked up usually for a penny as well on Amazon.
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby eXtremE » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:19 pm

A penny for the book but $5 - $10 in S&H.......Image

HIIT works great btw to help lower high blood glucose levels. I have used it and got a 40 point drop once. :D
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Re: If you can't do 10 push ups, are you really aging health

Postby anni m » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:13 am

i find yoga to be a great stregth and balance program that has served me well for decades now. my husband and i have been traveling for 2 years throughout the US and i've been able to keep up with my yoga, doing it every other day so that i don't put too much strain on my muscles. It really helps to maintain my muscle, strength, balance and serenity. i'm quickly approaching 60 but can still do the full body push ups in the yoga which i memorized through years of doing the dvd buns of steel yoga (started out with the vhs tape, i think the tape came out in the 90s!!). so glad i got that workout memorized as it is serving me very well now. no need for any equipment, only the small space in our small trailer and a yoga mat! I look forward to my yoga and so happy to have that as an additional tool to aging gracefully and healthfully!
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