Olive Oil okay to use?

[DonnaB]

After reading Dr. McDougall's "wholehearted" endorsement in the foreword of Gary Null's "Anti Arthritis, Anti Inflammation Cookbook" which contains many recipes that include olive oil, I am now thoroughly confused as to whether olive oil, this monounsaturated oil, is bad to use if used in small amounts. Since Dr. McDougall is endorsing the book "wholeheartedly" as he writes in the foreword to this book, does he now believe that small amounts of olive oil are okay to use in cooking? If not, then why in heaven's name is he endorsing the book? I have been following Dr. McDougall's work for the past two decades and I thought he was against all added oils, but now I'm very confused!

[f1jim]

Dr. McDougall is still very much against the use of added oils. Since I haven't read the book I can't comment on it's other virtues, some of which Dr. McDougall may appreciate, but his stance remains firm on no added oils in the McDougall diet.
f1jim

[nayasmom]

Dr. McDougall could simply be endorsing a vegan cookbook; nothing more. Perhaps the recipes aren't strictly McDougall compliant, but they do appear to be trying to attract doubters with a more middle of the road approach. That's not a bad thing altogether.

A visit to Gary Null's website would have me scratching my head, too, though - he offers supplements for sale, and a quick glance at articles he's authored show him to apparently be anti-vaccine, for instance, something that makes me shudder. I guess he forgot that world where people had to go into the Iron Lung for polio and a higher child mortality rate from pertussis, rhubella, etc, and all the deformities both pre- and post-natal... But I digress.

Robyn

[veganpete]

Whilst my goal is to get slim and healthy adding oil is not going to help me with that because its pure fat and high caloric density, however there seems to be many good recepies in the book and oil free for others you can just ignore the oil and use water instead in any case. i am very happy that there are more books coming out that make people aware of healthier plant based / whole food alternatives to the standard western diet which is clearly making a lot of people suffer. Eating larger amounts of vegetables but still a little bit of oil here and there is still way much better than what most people are eating plus from the amazon preview it seems he is focusing on omega 3 issue and arthritis which is being addressed in that book so it all seems very positive. As i understand dr mcdougall recommends flax seeds for some people which are high in fiber and omega 3. I know some people who are obese and unhealthy but just cant give up their meat, oil, nuts etc but would probably benefit from at least eating flax seeds instead of of any other nuts and seeds and something that might be easier for them to start with.... this book is definitely on the right track, even most of the plant based doctors dont agree on everything. when i go out with my uncle who is suffering from pretty much every avoidable illness adn had cancer 3 times altready i order rice and steam veg and he orderes deep fried meats, potatos with double cream, salads and then puts olive oil on his salad, i would rather he avoided the deep fried meats and double cream than a bit of oil on his salad...

[colonyofcells]

I have noticed that the vegan doctors often endorse books they don't totally agree with but it seems to be just part of being friendly with others in the vegan movement or others in the therapy diet movement.

[DonnaB]

To colonyofcells: I get it now. It has got to be lonely up there on the top of the intelligence pyramid, so Dr. McDougall is probably just trying to play nice with other vegan enthusiasts to gain more momentum for veganism at least. But I'm concerned that it might muddle his message. Dr. McDougall has an awesome responsibility keeping others on track and I think it is particularly important for him to maintain a distance from other popular vegans who unfortunately are still "fataholics" for the sake of flavor or texture enhancement, despite the health consequences. It's relatively easy to become vegan, I think, with all the products out there in the marketplace nowadays. Dr. McDougall takes things a whole step further, and a lot of people won't be willing to turn that corner, unless the health benefits are clearly and consistently presented to them with no room for misinterpretation. There's no place for "nice" when it comes to the truth about what is really making us sick.

[Jack Monzon]

I too would like McDougall to address this soon....

[nayasmom]

Endorsements are often paid for. It's neither bad nor good; it just is.
Robyn

[DonnaB]

So you are suggesting that Dr. McDougall's stamp of approval can be bought? Maybe I'm naive and idealistic, but I'd like to think the man has more scruples than that! He certainly seems to, except perhaps in this instance.

[katgirl55]

I too would like McDougall to address this soon....

Why? Dr. McDougall has his own books that make his stance clear. He might not agree 100% with what other plant-based doctors are recommending, but it doesn't mean that he's not allowed to endorse their books for the majority of what they agree upon. All of this confusion is just missing the point. When you see his endorsement on a paleo or Atkins book, worry.

[Ltldogg]

Both Dr. McDougall and Jeff Novick are against the use of any oils. There are several different threads on these forums and elsewhere on the internet that you can search for by Jeff and Dr. McDougall. Here is just one in a quick Google search using "Jeff Novick Oil": http://happyherbivore.com/2011/03/say-no-to-oil/

So, no, oils (including olive) are not okay and Dr. McDougall has NOT changed his stance.

Cheers,
Scott

[FitTrey]

Dr. McDougall addressed this sort of thing in his newsletter "The Diet Wars: The Time For Unification Is Now". http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2012nl/aug/wars.htm

Dr McDougall is supportive of people who are doing things very similar to the way he does them but does not squabble about minor differences. In the foreward, Dr. McDougall mentions the diet should be low fat and he also mentions the danger of vegetable oils several times. If he waited until a friend or associate was in 100% total agreement with him regarding every single detail, there would be no one he could support. And that would be a shame when they agree on 99% of things, and the world is in bad shape and needs this information. The minor differences are just that - minor. Dr. McDougall has the big picture in mind and I think that is a good idea.

Oil isn't healthy and always makes whatever you are eating worse. It has to be one of the worst junk foods, being 100% fat with hardly any nutrients. The poison is in the dose, and depending on how sick you are you may get away with using small amounts.

[nayasmom]

So you are suggesting that Dr. McDougall's stamp of approval can be bought? Maybe I'm naive and idealistic, but I'd like to think the man has more scruples than that! He certainly seems to, except perhaps in this instance.

Don't forget that this is a business for Dr. McDougall just as it is for everyone else who promotes this diet or that one. If you choose to think of him as a traitor to his cause because he endorses a diet that isn't 100% aligned with his, that's okay.
I've read several of his books and many articles on nutrition he has posted on his website; he often discourages the use of soy products except for tofu, miso and maybe soybeans occasionally. Yet, I'm uncomfortable with what I see as excessive use of soy milk and tofu, so I haven't found recipes I am interested in making. He also discourages the dependence on processed foods, yet many of the recipes in his books rely on processed food like egg replacer.

It is what it is. I choose not to be so strict in defining the McDougall diet because "going there" makes my head explode and then I eat everything in sight. As long as I follow the principles of his diet, I'm in a great place. Whether or not he endorses other diets that are similar to his is nothing to me. I made my choice and I'm happy to live with that choice.
If you're looking for some kind of validation for your own tangential changes, you'll find it, believe me. If it works for you, then so much the better!! That's what it's all about, right?
Robyn

[DonnaB]

My problem is with Dr. McDougall's own language in his foreword to Gary Null's cookbook. He could have chosen any words he liked, but he chose to use the words "wholehearted" endorsement. According to Websters, wholehearted means "marked by complete earnest commitment: free from all reserve or hesitation." I think that's common knowledge, and the meaning therefore is that he approves of the recipes contained within the cookbook 100% (without reserve or hesitation). That's what is troubling because it contradicts his long time stance against the use of oils.

I have followed Dr. McDougall's work for over 20 years, beginning when I was studying to become a dietician. Yet, I was so surprised by what he said in this foreward that I had to check his newest book to see if he had discovered something new to make him change his mind about olive oil (since it acts differently in the body from either saturated or polyunsaturated fats). Couldn't find anything there, so I brought it to this forum. I highly respect Dr. McDougall, but I think he made an error endorsing this book wholeheartedly if he didn't really mean it. And I think he owes it to his following to explain what he meant by the use of the word. I'm not nit-picking. With all the misinformation out there, clarity is essential for people wishing to live a heathier lifestyle or cure themselves of some debilitating disease.

[VeggieSue]

He states his anti-oil stance THREE TIMES in the 2 pages of the forward he wrote to this book! He is NOT endorsing the eating of oils.

He IS endorsing the use of fresh fruits and vegetables and the elimination of animal proteins AND ELIMINATION OF OILS to cure arthritis. Dr. Null himself even lists the few oils that are acceptable for Omega 3/6 (flax, hemp and walnut) and the ones to be used in moderation or avoided altogether.

Dr. McDougall doesn't endorse juicing, either, yet Dr. Null has a whole chapter on those, too. But he does endorse low fat whole grain vegan recipes, and aside from that bit of oil used in cooking, which just about all the Celebrity Chefs who ever appeared in the ASW seminars also use in their own books, these are probably decent recipes to use on the McDougall program. In the few recipes I was shown when I used the "Surprise me" feature on Amazon, only one had any oil at all, and that was a tablespoon of coconut oil used in a pudding. I've seen Mary McDougall recipes that called for the same amount of sesame oil.