Glucose readings experiment

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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby colonyofcells » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:36 pm

How exercise lowers blood sugar is still being studied and the mechanisms are mostly unknown. The body system is complex and I am not sure if our limited brains will one day understand the whole body.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby eXtremE » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:08 pm

I do know it works colony. I have proven it. Here is another experiment I recently conducted. Oatmeal is my favorite breakfast food to eat but I discovered it spikes me really bad when I eat it as a hot cereal. I was trying to figure out a way to eat it and keep my blood sugar from spiking too bad. Normally after one to two hours after eating even a bowl of the steel cut oats, my blood sugar could hit anywhere from 150-200 depending on the amount eaten and whether it is hot or cold.

I know they say anything over 140 causes sugar to stick to cells and cause damage, esp. anything over 160 should be good cause for concern. I have exercised all my life but the exercise is very mild to moderate and I was doing it many hours after meals. Dr. Gabe Mirkin has said you can effectively use exercise to control Blood sugar from rising too high and spiking after a high carb load. So, here is what I did several days ago. I ate a large bowl of oatmeal knowing it was going to spike me. Right after I finished the meal, I jumped on my stationary like for just 11 minutes of low volume, HIIT.

HIIT (high intensity interval training) is where you exercise very mildly for 3-4 minutes followed by short bursts of high intensity exercise for about 60 seconds. Then you pedal slowly for 3 minutes and then pedal all out for 60 seconds again. I did this 4 times after eating the large bowl of oatmeal.

I did it right after eating for 12 minutes. I did again at one hour. I did it again at 2 hours. I did it again at 3 hours. When you exercise, you do not need insulin to unlock the cell door to let the sugar in the bloodstream into the cells. The contracting large leg muscles easily empty their supply of glucose and then suck in more that is in the bloodstream to fuel the aerobic activity. No need for insulin so your pancreas is actually being given a break. Now, here were the results of my test.

1 hour postprandial = 94
2 hour postprandial = 97
3 hour postprandial = 91

Now, I know I can continue to eat the high carb meal and use exercise just like a drug to prevent the rise in BG. I do not like taking pills. Exercise is doing it the hard way but you also get some other benefits from the exercise so I would rather do this.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:53 pm

eXtremE wrote:Now, I know I can continue to eat the high carb meal and use exercise just like a drug to prevent the rise in BG. I do not like taking pills. Exercise is doing it the hard way but you also get some other benefits from the exercise so I would rather do this.

As soon as insulin resistance is gone, provided you produce enough insulin (normal amount) you can eat high complex carb meals and not have big rise in bg without the need for the "medicine" exercise. Good to get some exercise in anyway but not needed as 1st aid after meals.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby colonyofcells » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:58 pm

What I heard is the glycogen storage capacity of the muscles and liver can be increased via training. I try to do both weight exercise and aerobic exercise when I have time after meals. Our ancestors were highly active and I can understand why the body likes to release lots of sugar after starch meals. In the wild, it was probably a matter of life and death, how fast the body can convert starch to sugar, the faster the better for survival. Vegan athletes also like food that convert the fastest from starch to sugar, and some just prefer to eat fruits to bypass the conversion process.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby eXtremE » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:26 pm

GeoffreyLevens wrote:
eXtremE wrote:Now, I know I can continue to eat the high carb meal and use exercise just like a drug to prevent the rise in BG. I do not like taking pills. Exercise is doing it the hard way but you also get some other benefits from the exercise so I would rather do this.

As soon as insulin resistance is gone, provided you produce enough insulin (normal amount) you can eat high complex carb meals and not have big rise in bg without the need for the "medicine" exercise. Good to get some exercise in anyway but not needed as 1st aid after meals.

Yeah, this is what I am eventually hoping for Geoffrey. I also discovered today I don't really need the HI burst training altho I think maybe doing it once or twice a week might actually help your cells become more sensitive to the insulin.

I am also having much better BG control, w/o the exercise at all, using a more Fuhrman type diet approach. I am still eating the McD starches, but much less of them and more beans, greens, and salads now. Blood sugar highs are not nearly as bad as with eating a big plate of potatoes and brown rice. The downside is that the potatoes and brown rice taste better IMO. :D

I really abused my pancreas when I was younger. Things like eating 3 large candy bars, a jumbo bag of potato chips, and 1-2 liters of coke for dinner after work and nothing else. I bet I was having some tremendous spikes during these times and figured hey, I feel ok (no SX) so this must be ok. It damn sure tasted good. The pleasure center neurons in my brain were dancing with delight. I can also recall eating 5 chocolate cream filled krispy cream doughnuts in a row with a liter of root beer and big bag of potato chips or Doritos. When we are young, we often feel indestructible. What you are really doing is setting the stage for sickness and disease later on in life.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:43 pm

I can certainly relate to pancreas abuse! Did my share. Much depends on individual genetics. I find that my body is unusually sensitive to developing IR w/ only 5 or so lbs of extra weight, which is likely why there is so much diabetes in immediate family members (cousins, uncles, grandfather, etc). Some go the cholesterol-CVA disease-heart attack route and some tend more towards the diabetes-blindness-gangrenous ulcers-heart attach route. Just depends on how you are wired up how you respond to an unnatural terrible diet.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby eXtremE » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:06 pm

Yeah, diabetes is a horrible, insidious illness. I also think, like you said, there is a strong genetic component also...just like people who get CAD in their 20s and 30s. A young guy I know who is not quite 40 yet just had a heart attack and two stents inserted I think. Both his mom and dad both had diabetes and heart disease. His dad died of a massive stroke about 5 years ago and his mom died at age 69 of a stroke also. Both also had open heart surgery for CAD when they were younger.

The guy who had the heart attack is real slender too but he chain smokes. I saw him the other day at a convenience store. He got out of his car to shake my hand and had a cigarette in the other hand. After something like a HA, you'd think it would put the fear of god into some ppl but many ppl, as soon as the hospital patches them up, go right back to doing the same things that made them sick. Some people simply don't care I think. His younger brother has diabetes, is blind in one eye, and had to have the big toe on one of his feet amputated. His older brother has also had a mild heart attack and these three boys are all in their 30s and early 40s (one older brother) but they have a horrible family history.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby colonyofcells » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:13 pm

Many asians like me also easily get diabetes from being a few pounds overweight. Asians usually don't reach 800 lbs before getting diabetes.
I have been microwaving sweet potato in the office for 2 weeks. I do 2 pieces for 9 minutes to save time and usually there is a crunchy part not cooked much that is like eating a crunchy carrot. Raw foods are another trick to slow down the rise in blood sugar aside from cooked legumes. I have heard of people eating raw sweet potato but I have not tried it yet. I have seen chefs do raw demos of raw winter squash like spaghetti squash.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby eXtremE » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:01 pm

I am really enjoying this glucose experiment thread. Image

I had a big bowl of hot, steel cut oatmeal. I again incorporated 3 bouts of brief exercise to see the effects on blood glucose. Here is a screenshot of the approx. carbs I had using the Cron-o-meter.

Image

I hour PP = 101 exercised very leisurely (brisk walk pace on stationary bike) 10 minutes bf testing
2 hour PP = 99 exercised very leisurely (brisk walk pace on stationary bike) 10 minutes bf testing
3 hour PP = 85 (did two minutes of HIIT) of a 10 min. session bf testing.

Normally, this amount of oatmeal was spiking me in the 170-200 ranges if I ate and just sat in front of my computer.Image The mechanism by which exercise gets glucose into the cells w/o insulin fascinates me.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby olindaspider » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:46 pm

eXtremE wrote:Image


I have not been following this thread, but your chart caught my eye. So maybe that has all been hashed over before, so my apologies in advanced.

You are getting almost half of your total daily fat allowance just in that bowl of oatmeal. Have considered that maybe it is the walnuts that are the problem with that meal? Or following this this line of thought, maybe it is the fruit?

In other words, are you sure it is the oatmeal that is the issue?
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby eXtremE » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:33 pm

I have considered both the walnuts and the fruit. I am pretty sure the oatmeal is the problem but only bc of probably the way I abused my pancreas bf I began this WOE. About 2 tbs of walnuts, 1/2 banana, and 1/2 of a green apple is not having that much of an effect IMO but I could be wrong. I withdrew the teaspoon of honey and dried raisins and those were tiny amounts when I was using them. If you eat a strict McD diet w/o the nuts, I think they say you should be getting 7% fat. My diet is roughly 15% fat I would say. What is weird is that as my HBA1C went up, my lipids hit rock bottom with a 65 LDL. If I was having a lot more fat in my diet, you would think the LDL would not have dropped that low and my total cholesterol was always in the 170-200 range bf I bg this WOE. If my experiment works out using the timed exercise after meals, my HbA1C should be markedly improved the next time I have it tested. If not, I will have to again re-examine my diet and make adjustments. Anyway, it is fun and I am learning how I react to certain foods. This is a long thread. There is a strict McDougaller here was was 100% compliant but was having similar issues with rice and potatoes even tho his blood lipids were optimal and he had to adjust his diet. If you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, you have to be careful with some of the starches until you are certain you can eat them in copious amounts without spiking the blood sugars too high after eating. Anything above 140 (sustained) does some damage they say in people who are not even diabetic...esp. if the level rises above 160.

I have met ppl in other forums who said the Barnard diet works beautifully for them in controlling their diabetes and others tried it strictly and still could not control the blood sugars from the high complex carb loads even after getting the fat out of the diet. You will never hear about the failures tho, only the success stories but thanks to the power of google, you can find the failures.

If your pancreas is working like it should and you have no insulin insensitivity, the McD diet should work great for you. In my case, it was working great for my blood lipids but not so good for my blood sugar. I hope I am just still a little insulin insensitive and not insufficient. At any rate, I will continue to use the exercise. I have exercised all my life anyway. The only thing I am doing differently is the times I exercise. I use to wait 4-5 hours after meals to exercise. Now, I am using mild to moderate exercise after meals to keep BSs from spiking and exercise definitely works.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby olindaspider » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:30 pm

One last thought, I have no idea of this is completely unfounded. Dr McDougall says that it is fat that clogs the "locks" on cells that allows for proper processing of carbohydrates.

So maybe the true problem is including that much fat at the same time you are introducing the carbohydrates from the oatmeal ???
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby eXtremE » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:25 pm

Maybe, if I got down to 7 percent, it might help...IDK! Asro here was doing this...and still could not prevent the blood sugar spikes.
Some ppl here are doing it 100% strict and still getting blood sugars in the 140-150 ranges sometimes after eating if you read back through this thread. It does seem to work for some ppl well but not quite so good for others. I am now trying a more Fuhrman type approach. I really need to wait until I can have another A1C done. With my luck tho, HBA1C will improve but lipids will go back up. :crybaby:

It is just like a few ppl here are eating 100% strict McDougall and still can't get TC below 150...go figure...
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby f1jim » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:43 pm

But, once again.... Does it matter? Is the occasional spike to 150 post prandial damaging? It would be good if we could get Dr. McDougalls take on it. Just from a clinical history standpoint. I know he has a rather different way of looking at numbers than many doctors that treat by the number. And even he doesn't ignore the numbers if they get too far out of range. I'd guess he probably sizes up the individual as well as the number. Damage from insulin resistance can probably be measured in other tests on the proper operation of various organs that are prone to being affected. It's a complicated world. I know there are cases where patients are kept on some medications. There is no 100% way to treat anyone.
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Re: Glucose readings experiment

Postby Spiral » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:34 am

eXtremE wrote:Anything above 140 (sustained) does some damage they say in people who are not even diabetic...esp. if the level rises above 160.

Do we really have solid scientific evidence of this? Or is this just hearsay or a case of confusing association with causation? Perhaps people who have this spikes of 160 or higher are more likely to have damaged arteries, but it isn't the spikes that are damaging the arteries. As Jeff Novick has written, there's a Buddhist saying that says "a finger pointing to the moon is not the moon."

If your pancreas is working like it should and you have no insulin insensitivity, the McD diet should work great for you. In my case, it was working great for my blood lipids but not so good for my blood sugar. I hope I am just still a little insulin insensitive and not insufficient.

It is important to determine whether you have type 1 diabetes, in which case your pancreas is not producing sufficient amounts of insulin and, therefore, you need to inject insulin to manage your blood sugars or if you have type 2 diabetes, in which case your pancreas produces enough insulin, but your body has resistance to it.

The way to find out is to get a blood test for your insulin level, right? I'm no expert. But that's what Jeff Novick did at the Pritikin center. Blood insulin levels went down even as they fed the folks there a high carb, high starch diet.

I'd be concerned about a diet high in fat (walnuts) because too much fat could cause insulin resistance, though it is probably saturated fat and not so much polyunsaturated fat or monounsaturated fat. But excessive body fat is also a contributor to insulin resistance.

Personally, I wouldn't trust Dr. Fuhrman on anything. He deliberately misled people telling people that Dr. Esselstyn's patient had a heart attack because Esselstyn wouldn't allow nuts on his diet. Totally baseless accusation. But Furhman made the accusation because he is trying to make money. Same reason that Fuhrman tries to scare people into consuming his personal line of supplements. He's just an unethical person, in my view. I wouldn't trust him on diabetes at all.
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