Dr. McDougall's Health & Medical Center
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 Post subject: What is wrong with raw milk
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:10 pm 
I need lots of ideas to explain to my friend that even raw milk is bad. Any help would be greatly appreciated! :-D

NY Times article on the recent raw milk debate:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/dining/08raw.html?ex=1344225600&en=aa19825de843ec28&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


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 Post subject: Raw Milk?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 816
I think the case against cow milk for humans is overwhelming. As far as raw milk Luis Pasture must be spinning in his grave. Hopefully the herds used for raw milk do not have bovine lukemia or bovine aids. I believe it was shown that Chimps develop disease from drinking raw milk. Anyway the strongest arguments against dairy were in the McDougall Medicne video. This is availabe as an E-Lecture on this site. One of the lectures on milk is a free download. The other ones are only $3 each. I copied the information on the electure below. Available from the store tab in this website.

Dr. McDougall takes on the dairy, pharmaceutical & meat industries, & speaks out against low-carb diets.
Learn more or Buy the DVD Version ยป
Select segments and press "add to cart".

Add Segment Length/Size MB
1. Diet vs. Drugs 1:12:55/129
2. Reading Between the Lines 52:58/87
3. Milk is for Baby Cows 47:58/55
FREE 4. Marketing Milk and Disease
Click here to download now. 43:16/56
5. Meat in the Human Diet 1:08:28/117
6. Kitchen Essentials 31:45/50
7. Intestines from the Beginning 1:02:05/119
8. Low-Carb Hysteria 57:20/76
9. Molecules of Life 52:05/82
10. Dairy Television Shows 46:24/90


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:40 pm
Posts: 279
Marey,
I also am not real good at debating that point either, although the China study speaks on the risks of cancer with milk protein. I just finished reading a book from the 1930's on the Hunzas who had NO cancer, and rare sickness and are (or were....it may be different today) some of the longest living people on earth. They drank raw goat milk, but the book said that most of the time their dairy was in the form of a raw fermented product like buttermilk. Of course there is the argument that cancer stems from various environmental toxins that we are exposed to in this modern life and that the milk protein is just a catalyst for the cancer cells that are present. The Hunzas did not have exposure to these toxins living way up in the mountains.

_________________
"Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food" Hippocrates


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:32 am
Posts: 776
Location: Rochester, NY
Posted here in the Lounge by Hope101 "Fabulous on-line......" is a link to the Vegetarian Society of Hawaii. On that first page is a one-hour lecture by Dr. McD entitled "Truth or Dairy". This should answer all of your questions regarding milk/dairy products.

He's rather explicit and asks us if we feed cows human milk? Cow's milk is meant for baby cows just like human breast milk is meant for human infants.

The one-hour lecture is very enlightening (and scary). Let us know what you think.


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 Post subject: Raw cow's milk
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:15 pm 
I've noticed a lot of info is about the regular milk. I still believe all cow's milk is for baby cows, whether it's raw or not. Besides, with all the raw milk they're sellling, obviously these cows are producing more milk than what they normally do - therefore, they are uncomfortable like the other cows. Does anyone have any research, pictures or information about these cows, and how they are treated? I think that would be valuable info to give to the raw milk enthusiasts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:46 am 
The thing about Hunzas' longevity, though, is a little dubious because they did not (do not???) keep actual birth records...and so their ages were often estimated and varied widely from one year to the next, at least that's what I've read.

I think in general, the longest-living and healthiest cultures are normally dairy free or very close to it.

The Okinawains, who have actual birth/death records, are the longest-living people right now...could be partly because they really ARE the longest-living society as a whole, or, the longest-living who have also kept accurate birth / death records.

Anyway...they are mostly dairy free...alhtough not as entirely so as Japan, from what I've read. This is because of the influence of the big military base, u.s. military base, on the main island.

As far as raw dairy...I believe it is less harmful than processed...because the homogenization process, for one thing, separates the fat and changes the mixture around to the point of making the harmful proteins that cause allergy, the sugar that bothers people, etc., more bioavailable. Also, the Pasteurization process kills everything that walks, including the good microbes that normally compete with the bad stuff...probably why store bought milk goes bad very quickly (I hear...I haven't had ANY milk at all, let alone store bought, in my house for AGES and AGES). Supposedly, raw milk has the advantageous microbes that would actually turn aging milk into things like yogurt, kefir, clabber, and eventually farmer's cheese or curds and whey. All edible, at least. Storebought will only turn bad, stink, and make people sick if they consume it.

It seems to me that collecting milk from an animal is possibly unnatural, however, I can see how small-scale households with a few animals once milked cows who were feeding their calves comfortably...if they used this necessarily small amount of raw milk to churn butter, clabber buttermilk, make farmer's cheese, or whatever...I don't see that this would have necessarily been a harmful thing, alghouth dependent on the health of the cow...but people may have been more in touch with their own cow's health...plus, the cow's probably stayed healthier because they were grass-fed/hay supplemented.

Today...any raw milk might be more dangerous because even organic farmers who grass feed are likely to have crowded conditions that would lead to stress and diseases that would be easily caught in such living conditions.

Homogenized milk is dangerous because of the chemical rearrangement of its properties, making it much more likely to cause allergy, autoimmune disorders and all of that in anyone who conusmes it (cats used to drink milk from the barn///no problem. Milk from the store makes cats have diarrhea!)-- raw milk is taking a big chance, unless you have your own milk cow. Then...you wouldn't have that much, so you'd be very dairy-lite, as opposed to all the dairy and dairy derivatives ubiquitous in our food supply now.

Oh, and not to mention the danger of hormones, epsecially bgh...and that modern dairy cows are fed things deleterious to their own health, are in croweded conditions, and subject to many diseases, such as the above-mentioned leukemia virus and Johnnes, tuberculosis, and such...and Pasteurization isn't guaranteed to kill all of that. There are known clusters of leukemia thought by some to come from dairy as origin, as well as clusters of even things like bladder infections, etc...not ordinarily found clustering, and thought to come from bacteria which survived in certain batches of local dairy products that had been Pasteurized.


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