Weight Loss!

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby Ginger » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:59 am

Dynodan62 wrote "the fat slob in the mirror still has a belly (and tits to boot)"
Made me sad to read that. When do we ever escape the punishment of having a less than "perfect" body image?! Not only do we let the culture at large inflict its cruelty on us, we managed to join in the attack ourselves. I am a 68 year old woman and my body is a far cry from the one I had 50 years ago. Gravity has won! But I look at this body as an old and very faithful friend. What a miracle it is and continues to be, despite the insults and injuries I have thrown at it. And still it is so willing to respond to whatever kindness I give it.
Underneath the sags and wrinkles an energy flows...the energy of vibrancy and life. It sparkles out through my eyes and my smile. It affects other people. I am fortunate to now be living in a culture (Panama) that does not have disdain for older people. The (many) ninety year-olds here are my heroes...tough as old boots and outliving their children. And no body image problems!
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby Quinda » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:02 am

In my family the opposite occurs: I am lean by nature and have been all my life but he holds on to weight, a family thing. Check Cronometer.com to determine whether her input is in line with her goals. Once I did that he was able to lose weight, but he still needs to lose more and he needs to move about more than he does.
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby drnorm » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:06 pm

Hi! I'm Val and drnorms spouse. I read your reply and continue to be frustrated as you must imagine. I like norm have eaten the exact same food and juices; however, he has lost a great amount of weight while I stayed the same. I even gain a few pounds when I eat veggies out. I don't get it. Perhaps you can suggest what I can do. Five of my girlfriends have the same problem and say they have done the same diet. I have been doing the Forks over Knives for about one year. Help?
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby drnorm » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:23 pm

Thanks Lynn but I still need to know what seems to be a difference between men and women. There appears to be an unfair advantage. I was hoping that there was research or recommendations that would help.
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby petero » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:55 pm

drnorm wrote:Thanks Lynn but I still need to know what seems to be a difference between men and women. There appears to be an unfair advantage.


There is. A female of the same size and age as a male counterpart will have a lower Basal Metabolic Rate. This is why women require fewer calories than men.

drnorm wrote:I was hoping that there was research or recommendations that would help.


The recommendations on this plan would be to continue to reduce calorie density until the desired results are reached. Substitute whole foods for processed, milled, or juiced ones. Eat a greater proportion of veggies to grains. Read this article on Jeff Novick's website about things you can do to maximize weight loss.
It's easy to be a naive idealist. It's easy to be a cynical realist. It's quite another thing to have no illusions and still hold the inner flame. -- Marie-Louise von Franz
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby VeggieSue » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:25 am

drnorm wrote:Thanks Lynn but I still need to know what seems to be a difference between men and women. There appears to be an unfair advantage. I was hoping that there was research or recommendations that would help.



Dr. McDougall has a whole section in the MWLP book about why women are at a disadvantage when it comes to weight loss. It boils down to the fact that we're supposed to have more fat to help grow and feed babies. The fat protects mothers in times of famine. The fat stores the hormones that make us fertile. The fat gives us curves that make us more pleasing to men so we can attract a mate.

In other words, we have to fight against nature if we want to lose our fat. It's an interesting read. You can go to Amazon and look inside the book on the paperback version of it and go to the Table of Contents and click chapter 7 - Women Are Slow Losers
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby drnorm » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:38 am

I certainly appreciate all of your responses; however, no one seems to have solutions only more reading and commentary on why women have this problem of not losing weight. I have been asking what works! There must be women who have been able to solve this issue with losing weight. I certainly appreciate eating better and keeping healthy; but, it sure would be nice to lose weight as well. Does anyone have a solution other than recommend more reading or providing reasons?

Valerie
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby viv » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:14 am

Valerie,

Here is exactly what worked for me, in chronological order, to lose 30 lbs since I began one year ago. Some posters have lost a lot more than 30 lbs in one year. To lose the weight I had to be very vigilant and if I slipped I would get right back on the next day.

1. Watched Forks over Knives...this gave me motivation to begin the journey.
2. Read The Starch Solution...this gave me the information I needed to know how to do it.
3. Began with 3 meals a day and two snacks and wrote everything down.
4. Made my menus as simple as possible and based every meals around STARCH. This is the most important thing to remember, this is a STARCH based diet with the additions of vegetables and fruit.

MOST IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER THIS IS A LOW FAT/NO FAT DIET, NO OIL OR ADDED FAT OF ANY KIND.

5. My typical day looks like this
Breakfast: half a cup of dry oatmeal cooked in a pan with one or more cups of water (I like my oatmeal runny). I add 1T of flaxmeal, 1T honey and sprinkle of cinammon when cooked. My breakfast is the SAME EVERY DAY.

Lunch: Large baked potato, cooked in microwave for about 5 mins, with salsa and broccoli, fruit for dessert

Dinner: Same as lunch, varying the veg and starch, e.g. instead of potato I might have cup of rice, or sweet potato.

IF I GET HUNGRY DURING THE DAY I EAT ANOTHER POTATO--THEY WILL BE YOUR LIFESAVER!

Fruit or air popped popcorn for snacks.
I drink tea with a little almond milk and water.
Exercise: Walk every day for about 20 mins. Workout at Curves about twice a week. Lift light weights a couple of times a week. KEEP MOVING.
5'8", Started March 2013
Starting weight: 217
Current weight: 157
60lbs gone--for good!
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby eXtremE » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:42 am

Didn't curves just file for chapter 11 Viv.....I thought I heard this while listening to talk radio awhile back but I am not sure...could have been some other health and fitness chain.
On 7/8/2013, I decided to change my diet to a "mostly" WFPB diet. I have always been somewhat lean and muscular due to being a lifelong exerciser. Change in diet due to feeling crummy all the time despite a healthy outward appearance. Image
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby Josieinca » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:32 am

Hi drnorm,

One thing I noticed that you mentioned is juicing, from several things I've read and videos I've seen, most of the docs do not recommend juicing. They prefer that the foods are intact with valuable fiber and other nutrients in the natural package. So she may want to look at some of the information from Jeff and others on this subject. Good luck!
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby VeggieSue » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:50 am

drnorm wrote:Hi! I'm Val and drnorms spouse. I read your reply and continue to be frustrated as you must imagine. I like norm have eaten the exact same food and juices; however, he has lost a great amount of weight while I stayed the same. I even gain a few pounds when I eat veggies out. I don't get it. Perhaps you can suggest what I can do. Five of my girlfriends have the same problem and say they have done the same diet. I have been doing the Forks over Knives for about one year. Help?



Women can NOT eat the same amount of calories as men and expect the same outcome. As a peri/post-menopausal woman you're going to have to find the right balance of starches vs green/yellow vegetables and amount of exercise that will lead to weight loss.

In Dr. McDougall's newsletter of November 2005 titled Volume Eaters he talks about the original Rice Diet. He mentions how many of the people have to go down to as little as 400 calories before they start losing weight.

Many of the women here, including Star McDougallers, have found that they have to eat very little amounts of higher calorie starchy food and load up on the non-starchy veggies or they fail to lose, or even start to regain. If you read into the journals of some of these women and pop their daily meals into the CRON-O-Meter you'll see many of them usually average 1200 calories a day and under. Long-time McDougaller Marla is currently journaling her meals and entering them into the CRON-O-Meter and has found she has to keep the calories between 1000 - 1200 a day. Look it over and see the amount of food she's taking in for those calories. She averaged 2.2 pounds lost per week.

Jeff Novick has said a number of times that if you're not losing weight you have to eat less starches and eat more less calorically dense foods so your total caloric intake is reduced without having to count every calorie.

Even Dr. Fuhrman, to whom you're been referred to above, has said a number of times in his own forums that most women need to eat only 1000 calories a day. That's regardless of whether they have weight to lose or not.

What it boils down to is that the McDougall program has to be treated as a regular old low calorie diet if you want to lose weight. If you're not losing you have to eat less higher calorie foods, less total calories. Many of us have found that to lose weight we do have to keep our calories really low, some of us need to eat less than 1000 calories a day to lose. Some can lose at 1200 a day, others at 1500. Many men can eat over 2000 can still lose weight. I don't know of any woman, especially older, post-menopausal ones, that can do that. If you're eating the same 2000 calories as your husband, you're not going to lose anything and will most likely gain a bit. You've got to eat less than him, not the same amount.
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby drnorm » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:49 am

Thank you. Your comments have been helpful although frustrating. I guess men again have it all.
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby nayasmom » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:33 pm

Well. I might be off on a tangent, here, but drnorm, I think you need to back off from your wife's process. Leave her alone. Quit badgering her about her "inability" to lose weight. The way you write and the energy I'm getting from your choices in words suggest there could be some bullying going on.
Each to their own. What works for YOU is wonderful, stick with it, happy trails and much success and all of that.
Physiology for male and female humans is different, and most of the time it's unexplainable. Why do women have different heart attack symptoms than men? Why do women respond differently to drugs than men? Why are women more at risk for osteoporosis than men? Why are men such big freakin' babies when they get a kidney stone? It goes on and on.

Instead of asking impossible questions here, why not do your own research? There's plenty of texts posted to the World Wide Web that will educate and inform you as to the processes of the human body, differentiated by gender, age, geographical location, anthropological influences, etc.

And leave your wife in peace to find her own path, ask her own questions, and develop the diet that works best for her, so that she can find optimal health and weight in her own time.
Robyn
Great spirits have always met with violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstein


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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby baardmk » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:48 pm

I can't imagine the person who needs to go as low as 400 kcal to start to lose weight. That would be a very special anomaly. She has to be very short, do pretty much no physical activity and have very little muscle mass. There are many fine points to calories and energy expenditure, but as a rule simple calorie expenditure formulas (accounting for the major variables, of course) will hold to some margin of error, say 15%, and I can't imagine many people not losing having 800 calories or less. Even if you're needs are only 1000kcal, that 200 deficit must make you loose weight, even if it will only be nearly a pound every two weeks.

The calculator below gives the caloric needs for a woman at 67 y old at 45 kg(99 pounds), 150 cm(nearly 5 foot - 4' 11'', I think) at approx. 1200 calories. That's with 21 h resting and 3 h light activity.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

I'm not with this post at all contesting that it's more difficult for women to lose.

I'll add my own advice here as well. Other people have already given better advice, so it's more for adding another perspective. Take it for what it's worth. Although it's not a part of this program, I think a calorie counting diary of the foods you typically eat over a 3 day period can be a good way to assess your dietary habits. Way all your foods, write it down, and assess it after 3 days, to see where you're getting your calories from. Maybe you can pin down the habits & foods which requires your foremost attention.

ETA: Thanks Robyn for that post. I think that's a very important perspective. My post would probably be a little different if I saw your post before writing it.
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Re: Weight Loss!

Postby viv » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:07 pm

nayasmom wrote:Instead of asking impossible questions here, why not do your own research? There's plenty of texts posted to the World Wide Web that will educate and inform you as to the processes of the human body, differentiated by gender, age, geographical location, anthropological influences, etc.

And leave your wife in peace to find her own path, ask her own questions, and develop the diet that works best for her, so that she can find optimal health and weight in her own time.
Robyn


I wholeheartedly agree Robyn!
IMHO there's something a little weird about this whole conversation!
5'8", Started March 2013
Starting weight: 217
Current weight: 157
60lbs gone--for good!
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