Denise

[didi]

Heeeeeeere's Denise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heWprUncqIw

This is an absolutely perfect example of why Dr.McD refuses to call himself a vegan. In her talk, Ms. Minger never mentions that Dr. M has said many times that there are lots of unhealthy vegans. The point isn't veganism but healthful eating. Which all the plant based gurus espouse. I can't off hand remember all her arguments but I do remember the one about Seventh day adventist vegans and vegetarians having a higher rate of all cause mortality than seventh day adventists who eat fish. However, if you look at the numbers she gave, the difference appears to be small and they are comparing ovo lacto vegetarians to those who eat fish. Which to me is another reason not to eat milk and eggs.

The PrimitiveNutrition videos and HealthyLongevity pretty much counter all her arguments on this video.

Nor do I see in her talk that she gives statistics and studies showing longer lifespans and better health in "paleo" eaters.

Didi

[ulialen]

Minger is a perfect example of a lowcarber nutritionist: she is not a doctor, she is not a nutritionist, she has not enough competence respect to a real nutritionist or doctor, she tricks the articles, she tricks the people, she tricks with all the news that she find only to adapt the truth to her thought.

[nicoles]

Ha! Whether or not you agree with where she is coming from, she certainly is doing a decent enough job of getting herself some exposure.

I wonder what her true motives are?

[Vegankit]

Wow, she is inarticulate, unprofessional and ill prepared.

[ETeSelle]

She's a moron.

But I proudly call myself vegan--a low-fat, whole foods vegan. I was vegan for ethical reasons long before I went low fat/WF for health reasons.

[didi]

Actually, I suspect Miss Minger is quite intelligent. She is not a statistician and some of her errors have been pointed out. I do not know that she sought fame but it may have been thrust upon her as an apologist for paleo and lo carbing. She is very young and must have been a vegan when she was a whole lot younger--just a child-- if she was a vegan, as she claims, for ten years. As a young girl, even an intelligent young girl, one wonders if she was following a plant based diet that McDougall or Esselstyn would have prescribed.

She is somewhat unpolished and a bit unprofessional in her delivery but makes a good point about the plant based gurus insisting on giving up the white flour, sugar and processed foods as part of their way of eating. I guess she is assuming this is what is causing the improvements in health, which is also what the low carbers insist on so that is something both camps have in common. I imagine the opinion is also the same on dairy. And it does improve health. So it remains for her to show that meat and fat are more healthful than rice and beans. So far there seems to be a connection between meat and cancer and fats and heart disease. I do not know if low carbers have angiograms to prove the halting or reversal of coronary disease. If they do then their opinions should be explored.

Esselstyn's (observational) study has gone on for years. I am not aware of something similar from the paleo/low carbers but maybe there is a long term study out there. And Dr. E has those angiograms. Dr. Davis is supposed to have CT scans which show improvement in coronary arteries from his no wheat low carb program. Maybe someone can find results of his work in a peer reviewed journal.

The problem with finding definitive answers is that it takes years to develop diabetes, heart disease, cancer etc. Any of us could think we are in good health for years and years--until some illness strikes--both low carbers and starch eaters. For most of us not involved in any study, we just have to do our homework and hope we have made the right choice.

Didi

[rijman]

Denise Minger is an english major with no degrees in science, nutrition or any health related fields. She may be backed by the Weston Price Foundation and may be peddling biased information as "the truth." She is certainly not a qualified professional in the health or nutrition fields yet the low carb guru's treat her words as gospel.

My question to Denise Minger is, if you are as smart as you say you are and you're "community" gives you credit for, why can't you understand the plant based doctors you talk of are promoting a whole food plant based diet rather than a vegan diet? She is supposed to be brilliant, yet she seemingly cannot grasp the whole food plant based diet concept she is supposedly intelligent enough to debunk. If she was legitimate why not just be honest and straight forward about her information without playing games and trying to deceive?

Is Denise Minger really the best the low carbers can come up with in their battle against the plant based doctors? They couldn't find a Dr. McDougall, Dr. Esselstyn or Dr. T. Colin Campbell type with professional stature and decades of research and field work to make their case? These days with the internet, Facebook and Twitter everyone with a camera is an expert on any topic regardless of their qualifications, even Denise Minger.

[Spiral]

..... makes a good point about the plant based gurus insisting on giving up the ....... processed foods as part of their way of eating.

Didi

I think the apparent consensus that "processed foods" are unhealthy is interesting.

Isn't cheese a processed food?

How about butter?

Ice cream?

Ok. Many paleo advocates argue that dairy products are unhealthy. But Denise Minger seems to be okay with consuming dairy products, including "raw" milk.

[John McDougall]

The reason I gave Travis space in two of my past my newsletters is to answer people like Ms. Minger, who distort the truth.

Read and share: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2012nl/oct/travis.htm

John McDougall, MD

[didi]

I don't know if she is brilliant but she seems intelligent. I believe she is a self taught statistician and thus makes errors which Dr. Campbell and others like travis and plantpositive have pointed out. I honestly do not know if she is trying to deceive. I suspect she has a point of view and attempts to justify it. As we all do.

I am not a doctor or nutritionist (I have a chemistry degree) but I feel comfortable challenging doctors with knowledge I have acquired through reading, but not for anyone but myself and my own health. The experts who are doctors, nurses and dieticians push drugs and procedures and diets which those on this group know are ineffective, possibly dangerous and contrary to what some very excellent science and observation have shown and always have the attitude that I should listen to them because they have the credentials. Which isn't to say I don't value their expertise but I am entitled to be informed and make decisions about my own body.

I think Miss Minger is in error and in the talk I linked to does not present a very good argument. But remember that Nathan Pritikin was an engineering student, never finished school but was a successful engineer and inventor anyway and managed to capture the attention of so many with what was considered a radical way of eating---and won the respect of many "experts" and his ideas were the seeds of (for that time and in our culture) a whole new way of eating. Lacking credentials doesn't make her wrong. Being wrong makes her wrong.,

Didi

[ulialen]

How i have just said before my opinion about denise minger, and i repeat that
it is only my opinion, is that she simply is a corrupt person.
And how i have said before corrupt is the one that change the truth to
according to his though and honest it the one who change his thought
to according the truth.
She, very simply, is a corrupt person.

[adon-i]

I'd say she is neither corrupt nor intelligent. I rather see her as just another person who is in definite need for some narcissistic gratification.

[ulialen]

I'd say she is neither corrupt nor intelligent. I rather see her as just another person who is in definite need for some narcissistic gratification.

That it is your opinion as the one that i have expressed before it is only my opinion.

[didi]

http://www.plantpositive.com/blog/2012/ ... ments.html

another opinion of Ms Minger

[ulialen]

There are only 2 reasons that one person can have to support meat or diary: one is that
person likes them, likes their tastes. The second is because he have interest in support them.

If one person say i eat meat and diary because i like them, i have nothing to say. He is right.

But support meat and diary because they are healthy food is another thing, completely wrong, and very dangerous. Not only all the studies support that meat and diary are a not healthy food but also all
people know that, also the children.
Sure that all the people usually say: "yes. but i like it." or "yes. but only a little cant make anything". and so on. Because the number of studies that assert this is incredible high and it is from many years that we know that.
That only to say that it is not possible to support meat and diary as an healthy food if you have no interest in support that.