My daughter's kidney stones - elevated oxalates

[LauraA]

My daughter is 41, and had a kidney stone last spring. After it was all over, her Dr did a scan, and found many more stones that weren't yet in a position to cause pain. Then, he scheduled a procedure where they were blasted into small bits and came out with her urine. The stones were tested, and her urine and blood were tested. She was told that she had elevated oxalates, which cause kidney stones. She was told that high oxalates are found in most berries, spinach, quinoa, green beans, summer squash and many other veggies. Also found in nuts and seeds, legumes, and many grains! The other food was chocolate, which she eats very rarely. Basically, the list is most of what we eat. She and I have been vegan for 18 years. The McDougall diet was her idea (she was in her early 20's) We first read McDougall's books in 1994, and are both in complete agreement with Dr McDougall's program. She says that she can't limit these foods - it is almost everything that she eats. Has anyone else experienced high levels of oxalates? Any thoughts? Most foods high in oxalates seem very healthy.

[EmmetFitzhume]

By all accounts I was under the impression that following the McDougall program would help you avoid kidney stones. The only stuff I could find written by Dr. McDougall blames excessive protein.

[nosoyyo]

Dr. Greger talks a bit about oxalates and kidney stones in the first minute and a half of this video. According to him, some people are prone to get oxalate kidney stones, and beetroot is something to be avoided, although avoiding meat is most important in general for avoiding kidney stones.
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/asparagus-pee/
More from Dr Greger:
Oxalates in cinnamon and turmeric (she should avoid turmeric, not necessarily cinnamon)
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/oxalates-in-cinnamon/
Oxalates in star fruit (she should avoid star fruit, and I guess so should everyone!)

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/are-star-fruit-good-for-you/

Here's link to oxalate content in foods; I don't know whether to follow their advice in general, but it sounds like the very high foods should definitely be avoided.

http://www.ohf.org/docs/Oxalate2008.pdf

[shell-belle]

I read that August is the peak month for kidney stones - why? DEHYDRATION.

It could be that those people forming calcium oxalate stones have a propensity to do so.

I found this on-line:

"There also could be a threshold, in which a diet high in animal protein, sodium and refined sugars, coupled with oxalates and dehydration, increases the risk for stone formation."

but since your daughter is vegan that may not apply.

But was she dehydrated?

My husband developed 3 kidney stones in SEPTEMBER of 2006. It had been very hot and he had been working
outside and not staying hydrated enough. His stones were too large to pass so he had to have the surgery.
I think hydration is important as dehydration plays a role in many cases of kidney stones.

University of Maryland Medical Center advises that taking magnesium, an essential mineral, may decrease your risk of developing certain types of kidney stones.

We now take the chelated magnesium because years ago I read it was more easily absorbed by the body than other forms.
Chelated magnesium is a form of magnesium in which the magnesium is combined with amino acids, the building blocks of protein,
in order to make it more easily absorbed by the digestive system. Chelated magnesium is supposedly more effective and efficient than
other types of magnesium. The term "chelated" means the magnesium is bonded with amino acids. Chelation is used to help minerals become more easily absorbed into the body.


We take about 3/4 cup warm water with a juice from half a lemon squeezed into it
first thing when we wake up and then we drink our herbal tea. Lemon juice is supposedly alkalinizing for the body as well as
being a preventative for kidney stones. I was looking on-line & found this:

This is from healthcommunitites.com:
......................

Several factors increase the risk for developing kidney stones, including inadequate fluid intake and dehydration, reduced urinary volume, certain chemical levels in the urine that are too high (e.g., calcium, oxalate, uric acid) or too low (magnesium, citrate), and several medical conditions such as reflux, medullary sponge kidney, renal tubular acidosis and urinary tract infections (UTIs). Anything that blocks or reduces the flow of urine (e.g., urinary obstruction, genetic abnormalities) also increases the risk.

----------------------------------------------------------
Even mild chronic dehydration can increase the likelihood of kidney stone formation.

Preventing Kidney Stone Formation
The easiest step to take is to increase hydration. This applies to sufferers of all types of kidney stones. Drinking very large amounts of water - two or more quarts per day - is probably the most important step in reducing stone formation. It is recommended that sufferers increase their urine output to at least 2 quarts per 24 hour period. Drinking 2 to 3 quarts per day may reduce recurrence of stones by up to 90 percent.

above is from:
http://rogerbaxter.com/KidneyStone/Page ... ne_4.shtml

So since 2006 my husband has not had any more trouble with kidney stones. We went vegan in 2010. He stays hydrated, takes magnesium and eats healthy!

[John McDougall]

Here are comments from my Medicine book:


Oxalates and Plants
Oxalates in plants are solidly complexed (usually with calcium) and cannot be absorbed into the body - unless the diet is high in fat. Then the fat forms soap complexes with the calcium and releases the oxalate for absorption and contributes to kidney stones.

The following text and these references to oxalate are from my McDougall's Medicine—A Challenging Second Opinion book:
Eating meats also increases the amount of oxalate in the urine. Oxalate is the second mineral component in the most common form of kidney stone in this country. The increase in oxalate may result from an increase in absorption from the intestine or from an increased production of it in the body by way of the metabolic breakdown of certain amino acids present in great amounts in meat proteins.66
Even though plant foods, especially green leafy vegetables, are high in oxalates, in a normal person the oxalates are poorly absorbed, because in the intestine almost all of this substance is in the insoluble form of calcium oxalate.67 Fats from meat or any other source will assist the absorption of oxalates by forming so-called “soap complexes” with the calcium found in the calcium oxalate present in foods. When the calcium is combined with fats, the oxalate is freed for absorption.67
High concentrations of oxalate in the urine and frequent formation of kidney stones occur in people who have diseases of the small intestine such as Crohn's disease. This is because of the large amounts of fat present in their intestinal contents caused by malabsorption of dietary fats resulting from their illness. When these patients are placed on a low-fat diet, the amount of oxalate in their urine decreases, and so does the likelihood of their forming kidney stones.68

66 Robertson W. The effect of high animal protein intake on the risk of calcium stone-formation in the urinary tract. Clin Sci 57:285, 1979.
67) Williams H. Oxalic acid and hyperoxaluric syndromes. Kidney Int 13:410, 1978.
68) Andersson H. Fat-reduced diet in the treatment of hyperoxaluria in patients with ileopathy. Gut 15:360, 1974.

The protein (acid part) of causing kidneys stones is explained in this newsletter: http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... erload.htm.

[didi]

I am wondering if she is eating nuts and seeds. They were in the list you wrote of foods not to eat and which she said she eats. Also, grains in the form of breads which don't have very much of a water content but do contain oxalates might be a problem. According to Dr. M the oxalates combined with fats are the problem.

Didi

[LauraA]

Thank you so much, everyone, for your helpful and speedy replies. I will pass all of the information on to my daughter. The Dr. also found that her parathyroid was elevated, but not her calcium. I think that they are sending her to see whoever deals with parathyroid. Dr. McDougall, I really appreciate your reply, and all of the time and attention that you give to so many of us on these boards (and all for free!). I live in southern Georgia, but hope to get to an advanced study weekend at some point. We first read your books while we were at the National Institute of Fitness(NIF), run by Marc Sorenson. I saw that he was a speaker at one of your advanced study weekends. At the time, his lectures were 100% what you say and have said for so long. This was 18 years ago, so we thought that he was a little crazy to suggest getting some sun each day, since all of the information at the time was telling us to stay totally out of the sun. My mother, two daughters and I all were there for two weeks. My mother was due to have back surgery after the trip. She was 75 at the time. As soon as she began following your program, she was suddenly rid of back pain, shoulder pain from an injury, and all knee pain! The three different doctors that she saw for the conditions all said that her recovery was a coincidence! She passed away at 90, but lived many happy years after NIF.
Back to my daughter, she does eat nuts, seeds, breads. Pretty much regular McDougall program, as does her 4 year old son. As I said, thanks to all, and I'll get this information to her.

[patty]

Back to my daughter, she does eat nuts, seeds, breads. Pretty much regular McDougall program, as does her 4 year old son. As I said, thanks to all, and I'll get this information to her.

I too questioned the nuts, seeds. I remember someone who was changing their diet because they had their gall bladder out and when they ate a avocado they had the same reaction when they ate meat... also it was interesting when they tired vit d.. they had a reaction. Dr. McDougall's "Digestion Tune-Up" is a great book to share.

Aloha, patty seeing your daughter/family healthy and well being Starch Centered.

[noelalexis2000]

Back to my daughter, she does eat nuts, seeds, breads. Pretty much regular McDougall program, as does her 4 year old son. As I said, thanks to all, and I'll get this information to her.

I too questioned the nuts, seeds. I remember someone who was changing their diet because they had their gall bladder out and when they ate a avocado they had the same reaction when they ate meat... also it was interesting when they tired vit d.. they had a reaction. Dr. McDougall's "Digestion Tune-Up" is a great book to share.

Aloha, patty seeing your daughter/family healthy and well being Starch Centered.

I tend to form kidney stones but have never passed one. I was told by my chiropractor to take gravel root extract. I did and it works. I have ordered some gravel root tea. I thought since I only have the problem occasionally, when I eat nuts or seeds I might enjoy drinking the tea instead. We will see. Any kind of nut will almost immediately give me that fist in my kidney feeling. Have to be very careful to stay away from them and I do try to drink a lot of water.