Discussion Board

Phoenix... really you sound just like me!!! This keeps going over and over in my head too!!!!! I keep thinking which is better to eat when I'm still hungry, more taters/corn or apples? Or in the morning after my jog.. should I consume apples or taters... I actually feel like is this going to raise my triglycerides and turn to fat, as I am consuming my fruit!! Then I think, well apples are less cals per serving... I get myself crazy thinking bout it!!! Sooo many thoughts running through my head... See maybe if I was at my perfection weight I wouldn't be sooo consumed with this... I go back and forth with this all the time.. I remember someone saying ( i think Harley?) cooking the starches just breaks it down into 'sugars' which is the same as found in raw fruit, so why not go for the fruit??? Is this correct? They are both 'sugar', and they both have fiber... What am I missing in this mystery??
Are we supposed to look at the glycemic index, sugar grams, carbs or calories of the food to see which is optimal??? I am a mess right? lol
Sorry to butt in on your question. I hope, I hope we get alot of good info on this!

Part of the reaon is in the differences in the way the body metabolizes glucose and fructose. Glucose is the main sugar produced from the digestion of starches like potatoes. It is used directly by the brain and converted to glycogen in the muscles to provide energy for movement and generate your body's core temperature. It is very difficult for your body to convert glucose to fat. One study that I read determined that starting with 120 calories of white potato, only 0.5 calories were converted to fat.

Fructose, the main sugar in fruit, is different. The brain doesn't want it and your muscles lack the enzymes to convert it to glycogen. Only the liver can do that, and the liver has limited storage capacity for glycogen. So the liver converts excess fructose to triglycerides - blood fats - for storage in your fat cells. In the same study, out of a 120 calorie glass of OJ, 40 calories (1/3) were converted to fat in the form of triglycerides. This one reason why MWL limits fruits, and particularly, fruit juices. It's also why Dr. M recommends limiting fruit and alcohol (which undergoes a similar conversion) if you have high triglycerides.

That's not to say you should avoid fruit all together, blueberries and apple, etc. have important antioxidants and polyphenols you need in your diet. They also add that touch of sweetness in our lives we all desire. But, to answer your question, when looking for a snack that won't effect your weight, I would pick a nice baked potato over an excessive amount of fruit.

Kate

I wish it wasn't all about calorie restriction/ calorie density.. I wonder if Dr.McDougall is actually in favor of that??? I remember when I was raw 811 checking out this 'diet' I punched in a whole bunch of fruits , veggies, grains and other starches on cronogram. And I was shocked at how little I could eat of grains or taters compared to the fruits. Since I really do like to eat high volumes of food. I am not sure what to do sometimes... Last night I went for apples {4} because I was already close 3000 cals! I know some days I eat more then others... depending on how much I ate the day before.. if I have less cals one day I find I am more hungry the next day...bla bla bla... now I am just rambling
Have I asked you before... how tall you are, what you weigh, guy or gal, and what your daily cal intake is yet??? Just out of curiosity...wondering if you are trying to lose weight, maintain, or other health issues? No problem if ya don't wanna answer Im gonna stop typing now
Well I sure do like your questions
And can't wait to hear the responses.. I would love to eat more fruit without the guilty feeling. I guess I also remember {get your carbs from one or the other, fruit or starch... otherwise they don't 'mix'} not sure why??

Ooops. sorry Phoenix... there ya go answering the question before I replied.. cool your from 30bad! Funny how many peeps on here are from there! I left my computer, came back, finished typing and posted tooo late..lol
Ok Katy, you always make it so clear The thing is, I like not just 1, but 5 baked potatoes!
How can our brain and muscles not want fruit sugar?? So maybe whole fruit is ok cause the fiber is intact unlike the juices??? I knwo I am just trying to justify eating 5 or 6 apples at a time! I'll stop being annoying now...
I love taters! I love apples! I am torn between the two! If I could, I would just live on the two of them!

The paper I spoke of is at http://www.cookusinterruptus.com/files/ ... uctose.pdf
Don't be afraid to educate yourself. There is real honest-to-god science in everything Dr. McDougall suggests. Search through articles on Google Scholar and pubmed.org. The more you understand on an intellectual level, the less likely you are to stray. The science isn't contradictory, no matter what the various gurus say.

Starches are your weapons against obesity. Never fear them. I found This out when I went on the Elimination Diet for my food allergies. I discovered that what was keeping my weight up wasn't the potatoes and brown rice, it was all the other junk - ketchup, salsa, sauces, gravy, dressings, etc. that kept my weight up. Eating only starches, steamed vegetables, and 2-3 servings of cooked fruit a day - with only a small amount of salt as a condiment - my weight dropped like a rock. I literally had to double my starch intake to stop wasting away. I eat whole winter squashes, giant sweet potatoes and cups of brown rice and quinoa just to stabilize my weight.

Don't let the mistaken beliefs of the anti-starch naysayers influence your decisions. It's your body.

Kate

Katy, You are wonderful! Thank you for that! I cannot tell you how encouraging that is!!! The only condiments I use are lemon juice and apple cider vinegar, oooh and just started using Pomi tomatoes...And do not have anything but {fruits and veggies}
So I feel I am still 'experimenting' with this way~o~eating on how much I can eat without gaining, or to continuing to lose Not that I want to eat any other way except high carb~low fat.... I am about 125 lbs at 5 foot 2 inches, and hoping I will go lower...But I really am stuffing myself with starch, as I did with fruit while on 811... I want to not fear the days when I say.. oops I ate too much, now I can't eat anymore the rest of the day, or I ate too much today, so I will go easy tomorrow and have 'portion control.'
I watched Mike Teehan on 'vshvideo' who wanted to prove Dr.McDougall wrong by eating sooo many taters he would gain, but he didn't and actually lost sooo much weight! I would love to know what it's like to have to try and keep weight on. What a freeing, light wonderful feeling that must be!!! And of course its sooo much easier for guys
I know, there's something wrong with me! lol I really am not as bad as I sound {It's called my life long struggle to have the perfect weight} But I think it will happen eating this way
Loving all the support, kindness, questions, and answers on this site!

Faithslanding, 3000 cal/day????? I admit I am small (male 5'3"X115 lbs) but I work out pretty hard and typically consume roughly 1400 cal/day. Maybe you need more nonstarchy veg? The whole fructose vs starch vs this vs that argument has some technical merit but really, mostly I think losing weight is about calories in vs calories burned/out. You need to feel satisfied after eating and part of that is volume for sure. But something just doesn't quite add up to me in what you posted.

I do think though that if you are at goal weight then yes, whatever plant foods float your boat are probably good!

Your weight is already fine. You will just drive yourself crazy counting calories and feeling torn over whether to eat an apple or potato. As long as you are eating primarily whole fruits and not snacking on lots of dried fruits and juices you'll be fine. Eat to your satisfaction and stop when you're full.

Ok.. so i have been trying to copy and paste my cronogram for that past 1/2 hour, but since I am computer illiterate, I couldn't figure it out but it says 3065, and the past 9 days before that it has been between 1670-2939 cals... I really eat alot of veggies, plus my fruit and starches. I totally go to bed full!!
Now the only way maybe my cals could be less, {which would be great} is if my potato cal are off?? But the bag of potatoes say 110 cals per smallish tater... but i have both smallish reds, salt taters without the salt of courseand large russets, but I am bad about guessing their true cals. Either way I can eat a lot of them in a day..
Now Phoenix.. I love the idea of not gaining weight on unlimited fruits, but aren't there some gals who have truly gained just by eating fruits and veggies on 30BAD???? I mean maybe they were under weight but now they are a lil bit more???

I'm eating my fill at 950-1250 calories. 1400 on a day I work really hard outside. I can't imagine eating enough volume at this calorie density to hit 3000 calories.

I've never heard of Google Scholar.

Thanks, Katydid !

Haha.. I just posted a discussion bout my cals.. I am not sedentary, but there are others who move a lot more then me, and I'm sure they don't eat nearly as much as me... I guess I should just tone it down for a few days, to even out my increased cals??? I can do that easily..
1 apple in the morn
snack on carrots and jicama during the day
1-2 sweet potatoes for lunch
then a big salad with a potato or some corn & maybe an apple after
I have done that a couple of times... I feel good... but then feel like I am restricting after a while and just wanna eat to my hearts content.
So is that the correct way to eat???
Ok, so I am gonna go see if I still fit in my size 2's or if I am gaining..hahah they were baggy Although my bike ride yesterday had a few hills, so I really used my leg muscles, and they tend to 'pop' out more the next few days...

It is really difficult if not impossible to get an accurate calorie count outside an isolation tank type laboratory setting. You have to weigh everything to the gram and even then, since water content varies... And yes, looks like your weight is well in the ball park per Dr McDougall

Are you eating any beans? You could try eating a cup per day. They are very filling and really help to satisfy hunger.

Michael

It is if done properly and not "anorexically". CR means enough calories but not extra that will push metabolism to run faster. Plus you need to get enough nutrients. The full name is "Calorie Restriction with Optimum Nutrition", not borderline starvation.