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Some very astute observations in this thread

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=18881

In Health
Jeff

My husband and I spent over 2 weeks in China this past November. We traveled to three large cities (Beijing, Jinan, and Guangzhou). The American fast food diet is alive and well there. Colonel Sanders reigns supreme. He is on every corner and we literally were on a street where there a was a KFC on all 4 corners. There is Mc D's and Pizza Hut and even Kenny Roger's Roasters.

We had a much easier time eating vegan in our travels to Africa than we did in China. Oil is everywhere. Our Air China flight had "The Golden Embryo" oil as it's sponsor. Ads on every seat back.

I know in Southern China fruit and veggies and rice are the staples. In the cities though it is not terribly different than America.

So, I can see rice plus oil, meat, dairy, increasing the risk of Type 2. Did they take into account the changing of the traditional diets? No.

To quote the Weighty Matters blog (http://www.weightymatters.ca/2012/03/wh ... e-and.html):



So, yes, that's pretty bogus. Perhaps Fuhrman didn't actually read the studies.

Or perhaps, as mentioned already, he has "starch envy" and wishes to distinguish himself from Dr. McDougall approaching the release of Dr. McDougall's new book. Who knows. All I know is I have a bit less respect for him, while Dr. McDougall continues to climb higher towards "Superman" status in my world.

-Norm

I have so much respect for DrMcDougall and Jeff.
When do we ever see them attacking DrFuhrman?
They focus on telling us what to eat instead of why others may be wrong. Jeff goes through so much details to explain his position. If you argue with him he explains again.

I feel the starch solution creates tolerance where if someone's food preference excludes you, yours includes them. Dr. McDougall and Jeff Novick are coming from a holoarchy base. Fat/oil is the hardest addiction to give up. It is only when you give up attack thoughts you give up being attacked, which is very easy when not strung out on addictive foods (fat/oil).

Aloha, patty

I love this post. Such a nice reminder of the state of grace. Thanks Adam.

Dr. Fuhrman is a great doctor and nutrition educator and I respect his opinion tremendously. However, there is no way one can compare white flour and white rice with white potato. White potato is a whole, unrefined, unprocessed plant food that can function as an excellent staple to a perfectly healthy human diet. NATURE DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE!!!

Best,
MK

Good point. Nature did not make a mistake. The height of human folly is to assume we can improve what nature has already perfected.

You guys DrFuhrman has responded in his blog! Here is
What he had to say. Im disappointed I would have liked to see
Something to indicate the study was Reliable or point out some flaw in McDougall logic. But thats not what happened. I guess McDougall is right.

Fuhrman: It never ceases to amaze me how much the conventional population wants to bury their head in the sand and deny everything about nutritarian eating that can reverse and prevent disease and extend human lifespan. The commenters that find their way to this blog to “teach” their world view of nutrition and aim to contradict mine with the most convoluted arguments is a perfect example. Any study that shows high glycemic foods, meats, oils, increased eating frequency, high protein intake, some will look to find flaws in the studies to disavow any need to make dietary changes. A little knowledge goes a long way to inflict confusion. Keep in mind it is never just one study that begets my advice. Many of the commenters above illuminate the attempt people make to rationalize their dietary preferences with merely a shred of support on their side. Here they are defending that an almost empty calorie, low fiber, high glycemic, processed food, (with no significant micronutrient load) is not really a harmful actor, in spite of its link to breast cancer and diabetes in multiple studies and that it has the profile of foods that drive cancer development.

Certainly you can believe anything you want and go ahead, eat every hour, eat all the meat, cheese, oil, white rice and olive oil you want, it is your right. However, my work is not geared for the mass market; it is designed to inform people of the ideal diet-style to push the envelope of human longevity in those seeking such information (and to maximize weight loss and disease reversal). In other words, I do not water-down the recommendations to make it more widely acceptable.

This blog mostly exists to support those who understand my basic scientific principles and teachings. I appreciate the commenters who have read Eat To Live or some of my other books, so they at least have a framework to understand the basic premises of nutritarian nutrition, including micronutrient density, phytochemicals, food addiction, caloric restriction, resistant starch, metabolic efficiency, and the effect of foods on cancer-promoting hormones, such as insulin and IGF-1.

Yes, Asians are more sensitive to a high glycemic diet than those of European descent, but so are overweight Americans with metabolic syndrome, diabetic, or diabetic prone. For example in Korea, they always ate white rice, but now with more processed foods and all that white rice (40 percent of calories), they have almost double the diabetes risk at the same body weight as Americans. That does not exonerate white rice. Certainly without the processed foods and fast foods, the rice alone (with much more vegetables) would not cause as much disease, but that is still not the point, it is a weakness, not a strength in the diet.

So Beth, the article you linked was biased and faulty, please do not post those opinions here. David, regardless if ice cream or bacon is worse, that does not make white rice a healthy, longevity promoting food. The Chinese diet is not one we aim to emulate to maximize longevity, but we can learn something from those studies, in spite of their limitations. Dianne, you are on the wrong website, this is not the Halleluiah Diet. Natalie, your nutritional rationalizations are dangerous and everything in moderation is the perfect formula for cancer. I use science, logic and evidence to enable people to live considerably longer and better than our primitive ancestors and for those who choose to, to maximize their protection against cancer.

What a nasty response. Notice how he lumps rice in with all the other horrible-for-you foods?

All he can say is that the asians intake of other processed food "doesn't exonerate" rice. Well, it doesn't prove rice harmful either! Yet, that's supposed to be the point of the studies, so by his own admission, the studies failed. They only found an association(which is pretty easy to do in a population where rice is a staple - almost everything they do or eat could also be associated with rice), but we all know that association doesn't prove causation. If there are numerous other studies that he's reviewed that actually prove white rice itself is harmful, he should post some of those.

And is he serious that we shouldn't want to emulate a population known for longevity and good health?

I followed his diet for awhile and lost nothing because he recommends way too much fruit. But I didn't suspect his overall character until now. Trying to discredit McDougall in advance of The Starch Solution is pretty low.

I was going to comment on that as well. And by 'discrediting' white rice it discredits all starches by association.

Similarly, he discredits the critics (read starch supporters) by throwing us in with those clinging to their unhealthy diets and justifying not changing.

Brad

Read "Yet another silly study about white rice":

http://wheredogorillasgettheirprotein.blogspot.com/2012/03/yet-another-silly-study-about-white.html

This is why it bugs me when people post here suggesting that Fuhrman is "practically like" McDougall. Nope. Anyone who demonizes the potato has no similarity to Dr. McD at ALL. They are completely different plans in my book.