Discussion Board

i am wondering, how much training a GI dr has in nutrition? the reason i ask is my dr. suggested me to add dairy back in my diet due to concerns i have over the strength of my bones because of being sick so long. she thinks dairy is the most absorbable form of calcium. yet everything ive read say this isnt true and calcium is not in and of itself linked to bone strength. its more to do with acidity and a plant based diet is best. so i've been trusting this awhile now.

ive been vegan a long time and dont wish to go down this road again. i am concerned since i had a really bad break and that took 2 years to heal, partially due to the severity of it, also due to the fosamax they had me on for years.

for most all drs i just dismiss the diet part since i know they have less training in nutrition then i have had and excuse me, but are relatively idiots. lol. but i've grown up being ingrained with dairy being "good" for you and used to drink milk daily out of fear. she is the one dr i have put my trust in and is much smarter then any dr i have had. ie. she doesnt even push supplements on me, just vit. D since mine is low. so she is up with most current recommendations and doesnt even push meat on me. so i'm just suddenly confused. i cannot eat loads of greens due to digestive issues at this time. but i'm eating pretty well nowadays. and as far as i know africans and asians that dont drink milk and eat mostly starch are basically free of fractures and osteoporosis.

i would just blow this off but like i said, for the most part she is one dr that i trust, has helped me tremendously, and is very intelligent.

doesn't see like this is a subject she is informed about.
Some of the presenters at past ASW have shown quite a bit of data supporting the most issues with bone health are in the areas of the world (US & GB) that consume the most dairy.

I would seek out veggie foods that support bone health and adopt a routine of regular strength training. Note I say strength not weight training. You want to do weight bearing exercises that put some load on - maybe 5 to 15 pounds or even your own body weight depending on the exercise.

I second the weights if you are able. Also, can you drink a green smoothie or eat a pureed green soup? I used those to get in green leafies when my digeation was dodgy. Hth

vitamin D is not naturally found in milk. The milk companies add it to the milk. You can add your own vitamin D in the form of a supplement and do exactly what the milk companies do--only at a larger dose if you like. Eating dairy for the calcium is like filling a sink from the tap and having a hole in the sink through which the water escapes. What have you accomplished? The acidic nature of the animal protein in milk leaches calcium from the bones out into the urine. Countries with the highest dairy consumption have the highest rates of osteoporosis.

If you would supply your doctor with journal references to the dangers of dairy from peer reviewed journals (not the clinical guidelines which is what she is probably reading) then perhaps she would change her mind.

didi

didi, can you post me VERY good links and i'll let my dr review it? one thing i love about her is although she is about the most intelligent dr ive run into, she will say this is not an area i'm knowledgeable on. like she didnt know about the cold brew coffee/acidity to help with stomach issues. she does listen to me when i mention to her studies/facts and respects my knowledge.

i did search this. i was hoping i could get more input but it does seem although GI drs get a lot more nutritional education, its not adequate. and i do know most drs are trained to manage and treat, not prevent or cure!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19384248

i do take vit D. thats the only supplement shes recommended for me. i have also messed with green juices. i cannot eat large portions of vegetables or much fruit due to gi/bloating issues/pain. but when i research green juices and juicing in general, much of the minerals/nutrition is actually in the fiber/pulp.

fyi she also recommended the fodmaps diet and that helps for others with bloating/gi issues!

i know about weight bearing exercise, etc etc. but in general the treatment of osteoporsis imho does more harm then good, esp. with the medications.

hum.....would a plant based food based 1/2 the intake of a bone mineral complex be warranted til i can work in more greens? its better then the calcium carbonate thats added to foods.

my bones seem ok but i am thin and enjoy sports where injury could happen and the last thing i need is a broken bone!

i might email dr. mcdougall about my specifics but i hate to bother him. esp. since i do not have the same background as most all patients he deals with.

just from my research if the africans can have almost no osteoporsis and yet they eat mostly starch and little vegetables and no dairy, it seems to me that it really isnt about calcium. but about acidity, sunshine, exercise, etc. unless they have different jeans like the papau new guineans that live long, healthy lives and 70% smoke. but their diet is a lowfat plant based healthy diet.

sorry, I am not one of those intrepid investigators who always manage to come up with links in answer to any question. However, use the search engine on this group, and on just about any topic you will find great links and when dr. McD writes an article he always cites references at the bottom of the article so you might want to search his newsletters for the topic of interest. On the topic of milk, he has a whole video and there are also a couple of videos on milk on the site of the vegetarian society of hawaii. They have a speaker give a talk every month and I know of at least two that are on milk.

didi

Just my experience: Of all the doctors I have, my GI doc is BY FAR the most intelligent and he's also a little bit progressive (though not enough for my taste). He's the only doc I have who has any opinion whatsoever on diet. He is very much against dairy for all of his patients. He says dairy, NSAIDs, caffeine, alcohol all damage the intestines.

Although I should say that I had colitis so in my case it may be more important.

I used to have excellent bones when I did weight training. My bone scan back then was "stellar." Now they are horrible. I believe it is from all the prednisone that I took for colitis. I hope to improve them some day with diet and exercise.