howdy!

[fuscia]

just switched to a low fat, whole grain mcdougallesque diet. most of my attempts at dieting have been low carb over the past ten years. while they work for a while, it's boring as hell to try to stick with them. in switching to a low fat vegan diet, i'm not sure what to expect in terms of results. will i lose weight right away? or, will there be some adjustment, maybe even a gain in weight, at first?

[Burgess]

just switched to a low fat, whole grain mcdougallesque diet.

What do you mean by "[M]c[D]ougallesque"?

To illustrate, could you list what you have eaten for the last three meals or so?

Also, are you following the Regular program or the maximum weight loss program?

Last, how much exercise do you get each day?

[groundhogg]

Howdy! And Welcome!

As to changing from low carb to McDougall-eating and its effects on weight...I hope there are some with that experience here who can tell you what to expect...I've heard that just getting off the low-carb diet alone sometimes might cause sudden weight changes (usually gain????) in some individuals, but maybe somebody here has done so and knows for sure what to expect.

Over the longhaul, low-fat vegans usually have lower body weights than others, meaing Standard American Diet (SAD) followers, low-carbers, and even higher fat vegans and vegetarians.

There are varying degrees of McDougalling...it isn't too rigid...for examples, as Burgess noted, there is the Maximum Weight Loss (MWL) plan, in which everything is eaten in it's whole state, i.e., no ground up grains, even whole grains...etc. And then there is the regular McDougall program, which sticks to vegan and avoids oils...

...some McDougallers make desserts with whole grains, fruits, even sugar sometimes...others stick to more wholesome things and avoid all of that...it just depends on your needs, your health, how far you're willing to go, what you can stick with, if you're cooking for a family and children and such, and all of that. The more health concerns, the stricter a person would like to be in keeping to just basic whole foods.

I think his website and the newsletter archives give a pretty good basic idea of what McDougalling is, the variations for specific concerns, and how it applies to health problems and all of that. Also, you might find some helpful info in the Star McDougallers' bios also on that site. These are real life experiences related from indiviudals who have had remarkable results in weight loss and haulting or even sometimes reversing several types of chronic health problems.

[Clary]

just switched to a low fat, whole grain mcdougallesque diet. most of my attempts at dieting have been low carb over the past ten years. while they work for a while, it's boring as hell to try to stick with them. in switching to a low fat vegan diet, i'm not sure what to expect in terms of results. will i lose weight right away? or, will there be some adjustment, maybe even a gain in weight, at first?

Hi fuscia, and welcome to the board.

There is probably no blanket answer to any one of your questions. Results will differ to some degree with each individual. Generally, the more closely the entire program is learned and followed, the better the results.

Dr. McDougall presents his plan as a "no-added oils/fats, starch-based diet, with moderate exercise, which differs in some respects from a "low-fat, vegan" diet.

Which of Dr. McDougall's programs do you plan to follow? His program is outlined in detail at his website, and of course in his books. Look for "Free Program" on the website.

Welcome to McDougalling, and keep coming back!

[Laurie Crittenden]

Hi and Welcome,

I think Groundhog hit the nail (or should we say meal plan ) right on the head. It is different for each individual. But I can tell you as can anyone else out there who has done this, got away and came back to their senses, that you will lose weight. Just find out how close you can follow the plan without feeling deprived. For me I know what developes my cravings and I stay away from those foods totally and really don't care anymore to have them. People think if they eat in front of me I will feel left out but they just don't realize that I am perfectly happy where I am now.

[fuscia]

thanks for the nice welcome. since monday, i've been eating mostly brown rice and beans, very little fruit, tons of celery and some carrots, boiled potatoes with onion and garlic (no oil, all boiled. whoa! that almost rhymed). i workout every day doing mostly olympic lifts and deadlifts. the weird thing is, is that i know i've gained a lot of muscle in the last year (adding 100lbs. to my deadlift), so my weight is kind of a confused issue right now. i'm also on wellbutrin (one day, i may even learn how to spell it correctly) and i'm wondering if that is having an effect on my weight. i definitely drink too much, but i cut that out for most of the week (just mowed the lawn and there's no way i'm not going to have a beer, or four). when i was in my 20s, i went total vegan (no sugar, no white anything) and lost 40lbs and i ate like a pig, so i know this works. at 50, it may not work as quickly. anyway, i probably need to wait and see (it's not like i'm going anywhere). thanks for the responses.

[griscelda]

Congrats on your progress so far. I hope that you are feeling all the many wonderful benefits of this way of life. And to you wondering if Wellbutrin can effect your weight- the answer is yes. It doesn't always effect a person's weight, but it is not an uncommon side effect.
I know you said your weight is a confused issue right now, it's important to remember, for everyone, but especially since you are so into weight lifting, that you can't always go by the scale. If you are wondering about your muscle to fat ratio I would have it checked professionally. Weight can be deceiving. I knew a very athletic man who weighed over 250 lbs, but only had about 12 % body fat, he was a solid rock. I realize most of us will never be this way, but the concept is important.

[James-Lee]

I remember reading in the begining of one of the McDougall books something like, "This is not an all or nothing program...the more you do, the better off you'll be..." something like that. Basically what I do is strive for progress, not perfection.. Perfection as a goal drives me crazy.
As for the wellbutrin, it can actually cause weightloss in some people, it depends on the person. I wouldn't stop it unless suprivised by a doctor. You can get all kinds of side effects by stopping medicine.

[fuscia]

looking at using st. john's wort instead of welbutrin seems like more of a problem than sticking to the welbutrin. the welbutrin is effective, so i may as well. also, 95% of the weight changes it causes seem to be losses, according to most of the info i can find on it.

keeping track of weight is so much easier than trying to measure body fat, but that is my primary concern. too bad about that.

progressive vs. perfect? i like that.

[Burgess]

I usually prefer radical change over progressive change. If I know I need to do A, B, C, and D to become healthier, then I make the changes immediately -- if I can.

In the real world, however, two factors make instantaneous radical change impossible.

- First, I need time just to find out what I need to do (for example, avoid added fat).

- Second, I need time to find out how to do each item (for example, first throwing away the butter and the bottles of veg oil, and, as a second step, examining the labels of prepared foods or, better yet, stop buying prepared foods and eat whole foods instead). We aren't born knowing these things; we have to learn them, and even an ambitious learner needs time.

So, in one sense of the term, all change is "progressive." The key question is: At what rate should I make the change?

To decide how fast I should change, I need to know:

1. Why I want to change: Is it to save my life from an imminent heart attack? If so, I am not going to waste any time making changes. This step tells me how fast I should change.

2. What my goal is: Is it, for example, to eat only (a) plant foods, (b) foods with no preservatives added, (c) foods with no salt added, (d) a wide range of plant foods, and (e) foods that are high fiber? This step gives me a list of changes to make. I should put them in a priority order, with most important coming first. Cutting out dairy products is probably much more important than cutting out coffee.

3. What my plan of change is: Is it to (a) dump all animal products, first; (b) concentrate on increasing the variety of plant foods in my diet, second; (c) eliminate preservatives, third; and (d) reduce salt last? This gives me a step-by-step procedure with dates attached -- in other words, a schedule -- to follow to make sure I am not losing sight of my goal.

In this sense "progress" is an acceptable alternative to immediate wholesale change. But if a person has no clearly defined goal or a definite schedule, "progress" can easily become an excuse for laziness or evasion of the need to make changes.

My summary is that change should be ambitious but achievable. Not one or the other, but both. Adding one new veg to my diet every ten years is achievable, but it isn't ambitious. Making a completely knowledgeable total change in my diet between now and the next meal is ambitious but it isn't achievable.

Both are need: Ambitious and achievable.

[fuscia]

my only problem with a progressive (or, i guess i should say partial) change is that i usually end up circling back to where i started ("haven't we passed that tree before?").

[James-Lee]

If the wellbutrin is working for you it's probably a good idea to stick with it. I take topamax for a food obsessions disorder and it works wonders. Sometimes "all natural" doesn't work for everyone.

[Losing Linda]

Burgess, I like the way you question things and think logicaly. I homeschooled my children and wanted them to learn to think so we all studied Logic, which was new to me. I loved it! The only problem was I deduced that I was also an imaginative person with emotional controlled personality so logic keeps me in check. My children are the same except for my son and one could speculate that this is gender caused condition. What a study that would be!:D The way I see it we plan to follow a path then our emotions and imaginations take us off the plan and in other directions. To harness my mind is to use all my imagination, emotions and logic while focusing on the goal. I often wondered why I do stupid harmful things to myself and the answer came in the logic of a 4 yr old. I asked my grandson why he touched a hot trailer waterheater vent and he said because he wanted to. He had no reason except he wanted to. Hmmm

[fuscia]

looks like i've lost five pounds (and that's still 'pumping aluminum'), so i guess it's working. there's no delicate way to put this, but with all the whole grains i'm eating, trips to the bathroom are a lot less of a struggle. all hail fiber!

[Faith in DC]

LOL yes McDougall dares folks to not answer the urge to go to the bathroom. It gives a very clean feeling. The draw back, I know myself, when I lower that fiber even a little I will suffer.