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I do not eat animal products nor overtly processed food or vegetable oil but a friend who is incredibly smart in my eyes tells me that there is no way to get the amount and quality of essential fatty acids the brain needs from any place other than fish, and he said sardines are the best. He went on to say that flax seeds are just not enough.

Any thoughts?

It's not true. If you want more details, post over in Jeff's forum and check out these links:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/res_vegetable_fat_med.html

http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_heart.html

http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_hot_vegetableoils.html

Here's Jeff on Flax (with links to other threads): viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28047&hilit=flax

Incredibly smart doesn't mean incredibly informed. Everyone is subject to the same misinformation we are. Brilliant people die everyday of chronic diseases we know are completely preventible, yet they don't get the message.
f1jim

Not true, not true.

Run flax seeds and sardines through the Chron-O-Meter

10g flaxseeds = 2.3g omega 3 & 0.6g omega 6

10g sardines drained, in oil with bone = 0.1g omega 3 & 0.4g omega 6

flaxseeds beat sardines hands down,

Sue

I log my food into the CRON0meter twice a week. Not only do I get 100% or more of all essential vitamins, minerals and fatty acids, I get them in the correct ratios 1:3 Omega 3: Omega 6. I use ground flaxseeds in my oatmeal and green soybeans (edamame) in my dinner stir-fry as my primary sources of Omega-3 fatty acids. EFAs without the mercury poisoning.
Kate

There is the potential issue of conversion (or the lack of it) from the ALA in flax to the EPA/DHA in fish oil that which is actually what the body uses in its functioning. BUT you can blood test (expensive but available) to find out if you are getting enough from what you are doing AND if you are concerned and don't want to test (or if you do test and are deficient) you can take algae sourced EPA and/or DHA. That is after all where the sardines get theirs, from algae. No mercury poisoning in tank grown algae...

Interestingly, link to this just showed up in my email. Has quite a bit about EFA's in it
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/depression-a-perk-of-going-veggie-improve-your-mood.html

Interesting that you should mention this. I recently joined a clinical trial being conducted by Dr. Fuhrman to check the blood of long-term vegans who DON'T supplement with EPA/DHA. In exchange for a drop of blood, I get a free blood test and $10 Target gift card. Can't beat that Based on what the blood test shows, I may or may not add an algae-based supplement. But my understanding right now is that low levels of ALA conversion is more of a problem for men than for women. Women being designed by nature to be more efficient in ALA conversion so that they can provide the proper levels of EPA/DHA to a developing fetus.

Kate

What I have read is the same, more a problem for men. I was kind of falling apart until I added the algae DHA, all sorts of gradually worsening symptoms that were right down the list of omega 3 deficiency. Just depends on the person. You have only to read up on the forums here to see that many are fine even without flax, some do much better just by adding a little flax, and then...there's me (and those like me) who need still a little more

While I am not at the moment disputing the benefit of flax over sardines, it looks to me like someone stacked the deck on the comparisons. I have in front of me a box of milled flaxseed and a can of water packed sardines. (not oil packed)

In the example above about one third of an ounce of flaxseed is used for the comparison (28 grams equal one ounce). This is slightly less than two tablespoons of flaxseed. It contains 60 calories and five grams of fat. The can of sardines weighs a little short of four ounces. If you ate half the can of sardines that would be 70 calories and five grams of fat. VEry similar in calories and fat to the flaxseed. While 10 grams or a little more than two tablespoons of flaxseed is about the usual serving of flaxseed (I might sprinkle this much on a big salad), 10 grams of sardines is about 1/3 of an ounce of sardines. Now who eats 1/3 ounce of sardines at a sitting? That would be roughly 1/6 of the half can or 1/12 can. You would have to do some fancy cutting to get this little bit of sardines.

Usually if you are going to eat sardines after draining you would probably eat the whole portion in the can. You would get about half the omega threes as in two tbs flaxseed and about twice the calories. Plus with the flaxseed you get four grams of fiber per serving and none with the sardines. And with the sardines you get cholesterol and sodium and saturated fat.

I do not know if there are other fatty acids in either sardines or flaxseeds that are "essential" for human health.

I think it is more helpful to do the math on serving sizes, not by weight or even by calories. After all, when we sit down to eat, we put so much food on our plate and in this case, one would rarely sit down to a lunch of 1/3 ounce of sardines. So while not equaling the flaxseed, your friend would get about ten times more omega threes than it appears at first glance at the chronometer calculations with her sardine sandwich.

Didi

Thanks Didi for the rundown. I didn't have a can of sardines anywhere nearby, and I was wondering about this one.

Thanks for the variety of supportive responses.

This is misleading though because the omegas in the sardines are the end oil EPA/DHA while the omegas in the flax are ALA which must be converted at a rate of 15% or much much less depending on the individual person's ability. And also, that ability declines w/ age so maybe even more of an issue for older men.

10 grams of flax is 0.97 Tbs whole flax or 1.43 grams ground flax (CRONoMeter numbers) and contains 2.3 grams omega 3. To be really equivalent you would need to multiply the omega 3 in flax by 15% conversion rate (if you are being optimistic) and you get 0.35 grams omega 3

For ease of use, taking sardines as a supplement, one whole one gives 70.3 calories vs the 53.4 of the 2 Tbs flax and 0.6 grams omega 3. So to get equal omega 3 value (since that is the issue here) you would only need to eat slightly more than 1/2 a sardine.

I think I will stick to flax and vegan DHA.

But of course, I am following the recommendations of John McDougall so I wouldn't be eating sardines no matter what

Sue