Discussion Board

Hi guys, long time no post!!

I have a friend that wants to put the case for raw milk. She has joined the forum, so I suggested she posts here? So I'll create this thread for her.

I also found viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3875 and I sent her the link.

Hopefully she will post soon, and introduce herself.

Here is a link to Dr McDougall's VSH video "Truth or Dairy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGCdc9quABU. I have very roughly indexed this video below:

[*] 10 minutes: protein and calcium, wrong quantities for humans
[*] 14 minutes: randomised control trials - bone loss through calcium proven
[*] 21 minutes: rigging the research.
[*] 23 minutes: IGF1 promotes cancer
[*] 26 minutes: manipulation, advertising
[*] 40 minutes: downer cows (not relevant to the raw debate)
[*] 50 minutes: diseases, including type 1 diabetes, child suffering
[*] 55 minutes: bed-wetting

Thanks

Steve

been there - done that - bought the t-shirt.
subjected my kids to raw cert milk for several years. thank goodness they didn't suffer from this mis step. except for the allergies and asthma, of course.

time will tell about the other little probs our fams have had w/ dietary issues --- like coronary disease

the only raw milk people need is mom's. society tends to dictate when that chapter needs to end, but nobody really needs it to soften their cheerios.

For me, it just seems a little silly that we are drinking the breast milk of another species, designed for their babies.

But where I am in Portugal, and in the Permaculture / ecovillage movement, this is generally accepted as healthy.

I would be interested to see this argument thrashed out thoroughly. Then, hopefully, we can get agreement. The truth needs to come out.

By the way when my friend posts, her native tongue is not English, so please allow for some typos. I guess she'll post tomorrow now.

Thanks

I wonder what are the mystical benefits you get from drinking raw milk as opposed to the pasteurised stuff? Oh, yes but it's natural I hear!
A similar arguement to organic beef versus non-organic beef.
Marketing spin. It's more natural so it must be healthy!

here is a blurb I found in a vegetarian website:
...................................
Remember Linda McCartney ?
She was a breast cancer victim, a dairy-eating vegetarian activist who
endorsed the consumption of milk and dairy products.

Cow’s milk contains a hormone that is the key factor in the growth
and proliferation of every breast cancer. That hormone, insulin-like
growth factor-I (IGF-I), is an exact match between humans and cows.
Every twelve-ounce glass of milk
doubles the amount of this naturally occurring growth hormone in your
body, a hormone that makes existing breast cancers grow.

There are hundreds of millions of different proteins in nature, and only one hormone that is identical between any two species.
That powerful growth hormone is insulin-like growth factor, or IGF-I. IGF-I survives digestion and has been identified as the KEY FACTOR in breast cancer's growth.

IGF-I is identical in human and cow.

By drinking cow's milk, one delivers IGF-I in a bioactive form to the body's cells.
When IGF-I from cow's milk alights upon an existing cancer... that cancer grows.

Dr McDougall explains how ALL dairy products are bad for colon health. As if we need another reason
besides cruelty to cows to avoid milk & dairy! The dairy protein paralyzes the bowel activity!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjbkQwkU0HA

Dr Shinya says this about MILK:
...................................

MILK CAUSES INFLAMMATION

The first time I learned how bad milk is for the body was more than 35 years ago, when my own children developed atopic dermatitis’ at six or seven months of age.

The children’s mother followed the pediatrician’s instructions, but no matter how much treatment they received, the children’s dermatitis did not improve at all. Then, at around age three or four, my son began having severe diarrhea. And finally, he even started getting blood in his stool. Upon examination with an endoscope, I discovered that the toddler manifested early stages of ulcerative colitis.

Knowing ulcerative colitis is closely linked to one’s diet, I focused on what kind of food the children usually ate. As it turned out, just when the children began developing atopic dermatitis, my wife had stopped breastfeeding and had started giving them milk under the pediatrician’s advice. We eliminated all milk and milk products from the children’s diet from that point on. Sure enough, the bloody stool and diarrhea, even the atopic dermatitis, completely subsided.

Following that experience, I began obtaining an itemized list of how much milk and milk products were consumed when I asked my patients about their dietary history. According to my clinical data, there is a high likelihood of developing a predisposition to allergies by consuming milk and milk products. This correlates with recent allergy studies that report that when pregnant women drink milk, their children are more prone to develop atopic dermatitis.

During the past 30 years in Japan, the number of patients with atopic dermatitis and hay fever has increased at an astonishing rate. That number may currently be as much as one out of every five people. There are many theories as to why there has been such a rapid increase in the number of people with allergies, but I believe the number one cause is the introduction of milk in school lunches in the early 1960s.
.........................................

I read it in Shinya's book and then found it on this website:

http://www.health-matrix.net/2010/06/05 ... s-so-evil/

I appreciate everyone's comments, but lets keep emotions out of it, and stick to scientific facts. If Drs Campbell and Esselstyn became emotional, they would still be defending their dairy herds. And try telling Texas dairy farmers to be kind to animals. Better tell them they will die of heart disease and get erectile dysfunction than ask them to be kind to cows. In this debate, it's best to be a Mad Cowboy http://www.madcowboy.com/.

Actually this debate is one sided, so now, I will be the Devil's advocate, and say raw milk is good http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_milk_ ... efits.html

Anyone want to argue with me?

Problem with Raw milk near where I live earlier this month.

http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-lab-tests-confirm-bacterias-presence-in-raw-milk-from-chambersburg-dairy-20120202,0,3217846.story

I've actually been to this dairy. My wife was wanting some raw milk, not for health benefits, she just grew up drinking raw milk and thinks it tastes better. I did not buy anything from this dairy, there was another place to get raw milk for less than the $6.50 a gallon they were asking here.

I have first hand experience with consuming raw milk. When I was a child, we lived right next to a dairy farmer and purchased raw milk direct from the bulk tank. I remember getting severely sick whenever I drank the stuff, even in small quantities. I didn't have as much trouble with pastuerized milk or raw goats milk. I noticed a definite improvement (less phlegm, congestion and my stomach felt better) when I stopped all dairy products. I think we are healthiest drinking raw human milk as infants and after weaning consume a plant-based diet.

Michael

This is exactly the situation my wife grew up in. Plus she's from Wisconsin, so dairy is almost a religion. Even after my first heart attack when I was 38, she refused to buy anything other than whole milk, half-n-half, and butter. If I was with her I would buy a "healthy" margarine (in addition to butter for her), which she would bitch endlessly about til it got thrown away.

You know, now that I think about it. Everybody that was raised in that house is supremely unhealthy or dead. They raised their own beef, pork, chickens, eggs, vegetables. Canned for the winter. I think they bought bread, sugar, salt and very few other things from grocery stores. Fast food and junk food were rare treats. Now for junk food I'm not including home made baked goods, which are considered a form of currency in that part of the country.

Not that this is any sort of indictment against raw milk, I think all dairy is bad.

Ahhhh makes sense now

That would be the post I just reported as spam. Why on earth would anyone here want to argue with anyone else here about dairy ?

These are the McDougall boards, that support those that follow the McDougall diet, that does not advocate the use of dairy products.
Dairy is a non issue. Within the context of the McDougall diet dairy does not exist.

Healthy1, what are your motives here, to create rancor, bad feelings, to attempt to justify your friends actions, to trash the McDougall diet, to try to sow seeds of doubt ?

Bad taste Healthy1, bad taste.

Beagle, it is peculiar that people in this forum choose to be aggressive and argumentative, and make presumptions. I had the same experience when I posted another thread a while back, see viewtopic.php?t=13166, see posts by Purdy, who I think is now no longer a member.

Of course I know dairy is out. I stated my reasons for posting above, namely "I have a friend that wants to put the case for raw milk. She has joined the forum, so I suggested she posts here? So I'll create this thread for her."

I think an apology would be in order.

And for information, I am giving a series of talks in Portugal called "Back to Nature for health". The person who wanted to make the point for dairy attended one of those talks, and she said she would like to discuss with Dr McD, so I suggested she posted here. I wanted some support, as it is common here for people to keep goats, it is an age old tradition.

I don't think I will be coming here for support again

Milk is for babies. Cow's milk is for baby cows. If the moo fits, wear it.