Discussion Board

From Forks Over Knives Email This AM:

"Well-known health care provider, Kaiser Permanente, published an article in its medical science journal recommending that physicians consider a plant-based diet for all patients. The article said, "Healthy eating may be best achieved with a plant-based diet, which we define as a regimen that encourages whole, plant-based foods and discourages meats, dairy products, and eggs as well as all refined and processed foods … Physicians should consider recommending a plant-based diet to all their patients, especially those with high blood pressure, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, or obesity." Read the full article here."

http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/iss ... ition.html

Doctor McDougall rightly says in his article on Angelina Jolie's decision to have a double mastectomy - that doctor's do not recommend changing the diet to prevent or even reserve certain health outcomes. The above linked article may change this.

Also, I believe I heard Dr. McDougall say he had been in discussions with Kaiser in past about plant- based eating. So I am so grateful to him and the other doctors who may have moved Kaiser toward this position!

This will really help me too with a family member who is still eating Atkin's, but think her Kaiser membership is one of the best things money can buy!

I am so excited about this and have to say my Kaiser primary care doctor has been my biggest supporter outside this forum! Kaiser had Dr. Esselstyn lecture their doctors a few years back and she has been on board since that time. She has even recommended cookbooks and I am fairly certain that it's her WOE too. She couldn't be happier that I have lost pre-diabetes, a fatty liver and weight! Not to mention that all my labs are great in every way now - though I am still working on the weight loss.

My family has a Kaiser health plan and I'm pleased by this news. Maybe my primary doctor, who I see maybe once every 5 years, won't be so concerned about my diet the next time she sees me. We last talked about 3 years ago and she asked where I get my protein then asked where I get my caffeine.

OMG, seriously caffeine - like it's a nutrient!!!!

Another good thing about Kaiser is we can change our primary care doctors no problem, if you want to that is!

Another Kaiser member here. My cardiologist was a maverick when he encouraged a plant-based diet several years ago. In doing so, he riled colleagues both in the cardiology and in the nutrition departments. I wonder what those other folks are saying now.

They need to make sure to emphasize NO OIL. "Plant based" to most people means "a lot of plants and a lot of olive oil, along w/ some meat and cheese and eggs."

Good for Kaiser! Definitely a step in the right direction.

Only problem is according to the link, Kaiser is recommending the plant based diet that I could never stick to--limiting my beloved potatoes to a single serving daily! NOW we have to educate them on the Starchivore diet.

"His physician also prescribed a low-sodium, plant-based diet that excluded all animal products and refined sugars and limited bread, rice, potatoes, and tortillas to a single daily serving. He was advised to consume unlimited nonstarchy vegetables, legumes, and beans, in addition to up to 2 ounces of nuts and seeds daily. He was also asked to begin exercising 15 minutes twice a day."

This is good news, indeed (despite rice and potatoes still getting a bad rap). Looking at the references, I see the authors citing the work of Drs. McDougall, Ornish, Esselstyn, Barnard as well as TC Campbell. I think plant-based diets are becoming more and more acceptable as an alternative to the SAD.

I can recall times in the 1970s when relatives would ask if I were still eating "rabbit food" and half-expected me to drop to all fours and graze in the backyard.

I see that there are many things in this article that the doctor's we all know and follow would probably have some issue with. I have found numerous things that are presently not considered nutrition issues with this WOE. To me I see the old guard of nutrition issues entering this article - which is unfortunate.

Mostly like some of you I found it distressing that the example in the early part of the diet is nothing like what works so well for us as McDougaller's. However, it worked well enough to encourage Kaiser to go this direction, can't complain about that! Furthermore, Dr. McDougall and Dr. Fuhrman - at an Advanced Study weekend - completely agreed that it's not the minutiae we should be concerned with it's getting folks to realize that plant-based will work in their lives and have good outcomes: this is the biggest hurdle of all - not nuts and seeds.

So this article ultimately is saying Kaiser should promote plant based. This is how they define plant based and it does say total fat is generally restricted.


Just like us - I think people who are really concerned about getting the best results to prevent or reverse disease will select the diet they get the best outcomes with. I am very encouraged to see that in the footnotes Dr. McDougall is cited and it's a recipe book! Not to mention the docs sited throughout are all one's we probably know and have learned something from, including Barnard later.


So not perfect -- but I bet all our favorite doctors are going to be pretty happy to see this today!

I'm not so sure how much I believe Kaiser is on our side. It's true that thay are committed to preventative medicine, But it is also true that they championed the idea of preventative colonoscopies and various other testing that doesn't seem to fit well with my definition of solving lifestyle problems with lifestyle treatments.

That being said I am always happy to hear anybody recommending diet as a major component of health.

Mark

After reading the Kaiser article I forwarded it to 14 people. We have Bill Clinton backing the plant based diet for credibility in the public forum and now we have Kaiser. "Whole" just came out and Rip is on tv talking about his new book while Dr. McDougall and his colleagues keep delivering their messages to ever expanding bases. Combine recent and ongoing events with Kaiser now backing the WFPB diet, awareness of the WFPB diet may be expanding at a higher than normal rate.

This indeed is great news! Kaiser is very big:



In the article they do not stress upon the little-added-oil aspect of the plant based diet advocated here, but this is a big step in the right direction.

I noticed that three of the four authors are MDs. And the article is based on solid research with all claims backed up by references.

Actually I don't believe that Kaiser recommends routine colonoscopies. Rather they recommend a single sigmoidoscopy for members over age 50.
Much less invasive or dangerous. Does not require sedation and has much lower incidence of perforation.

They do ask that you also submit a stool sample in those little kits that you mail in or drop off.

Kaiser does very well, but the limitations regarding diet are in great part do to the same problem so many primary care doctors have. Patient load. Having from 15 to 20 minutes per patient in which to do the exam, check the problems, read the chart, and make new notes to the chart.... Bing, bing, bing, 17.7 minutes used up, leaving 1.3 minutes to discuss diet, the having 60 seconds to get to he next waiting room.

I suppose they could offer the following.
A diet class based entirely on plant based eating, much as they offer free classes on diets for diabetes etc.
However don't expect it to include "no oil" as a recommended feature.

Here is the local newsletter from one of Kaiser's local areas.

http://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/nc ... 480573.pdf

So some Kaiser regional areas and doctors have been expressing this opinion for some time.

This example, not far from Dr. McDougalls offices.

Not sure what "on our side" means. Kaiser doesn't want to spend money treating me for food-borne illnesses. I don't want to grow sick and die prematurely from food-borne illnesses. They're motivated (as ever) by the desire to contain costs. I'm motivated by the desire to contain death. It isn't often that the dirt-cheapest medical solution is the best solution, but that's the case here. So Kaiser and I, though coming at this from different directions, have arrived at the same place. Good on both of us.

My Dr. , at Kaiser, is the one who introduced me to Dr. McDougall. He had the newsletters in his rooms, and he asked "would you like to try life style changes?" I said I had taken every class Kaiser offered. Then he just showed me the web page, and had his nurse print it out for me. I began that night, and feel so much better. Have I lost all my weight, no. BECAUSE, I slipped into the a little here and there mode. Husband found a Chinese restaurant around the corner Veggies yes, oil free,no. so a bit here and there and I was regaining.
In April, I went back to basics and mostly MWL. Sure enough , pounds are dropping, and energy returning.
If any one knows a contact number at Kaiser where we could request plant based/low oil lessons, I would certainly request.

Thanks Waingapu for the local Kaiser handout - very cool too and more information for my Atkins eating Aunt

This is also a link from JeffN's discussion board. He tells us all who the authors of the Kaiser article above are, lots of other interesting tidbits and handouts too:-D

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